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LEOSA and the NYPD

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by Sippo, Aug 23, 2011.

  1. Sippo


    Jul 27, 2010
    To our GT friends in the NYPD:

    I've read of the court case concerning a Pennsylvania Constable arrested (and later acquitted) for possession of a firearm while serving warrants in the Greater NYC area. He was lawfully carrying concealed on-duty when he was arrested for possession (no other charges were filed). That was few years ago.

    I am wondering what is the climate toward off-duty LEO's from other states carrying concealed under LEOSA in NYC (as a tourist)? Would my LEO credentials be met with hostility by an officer there if asked to see my carry permit?

    Yes, I know technically it is lawful to do so, but I'm not interested in making a statement on a family vacation. I do appreciate the right to carry off-duty for personal defense.

    I'd appreciate your advice.
  2. Hack

    Hack Crazy CO Gold Member

    I'm DOJ LEO through the BOP. For us although it is legal to do so, sometimes from what I have heard it has been met with mixed views concerning BOP LEOS carrying in NYC. However, with municipal and state police and those federal that are readily recognized as being LE it has not really been a problem, and for that matter there are those who may even help you find some good places to go to.

    I myself have gone to upstate NY armed, but those areas are different than the NYC laws and mindset.

  3. I believe the NYPD got slapped for that one. You shouldn't have a problem, as most coppers there are pro LE and gun. There are some members here that will chime in that can attest to the current atmosphere, but I believe that the members have been updated on this legislation. I once called a LEO from out of state inquiring about carrying in their jurisdiction prior to LEOSA. I'll never forget his statement, "If I don't have a problem there (NYC) then you won't have a problem here"....:whistling:....We exchanged contact info and I never heard from him again....I guess enjoyed his visit.....:rofl:
  4. nohocop


    Sep 20, 2007
    I declared my firearm at La Guardia and was met by 2 Port Police officers. I had my credentials out and was treated just fine. No issues.
  5. seanmac45

    seanmac45 CLM

    Apr 13, 2000
    Brooklyn, NY
    I have said it before and will state it again.

    NYPD gave professional courtesy long before HR 218/LEOSA and we still continue to do so to this day.

    As long as you aren't drunk, armed and causing a stink you are good to go.

    Of course, Statue of Liberty and Empire State Building are issues, but everywhere else is fine. Concealed means concealed.

    Come, relax, enjoy, and don't worry about it.
  6. OldCurlyWolf


    Aug 7, 2010
    Since the Statue and Liberty Island are NPS, the only problem would be the ferry to the Island. What is the problem with the Empire State Building? The private ownership doesn't like concealed carry licensees?
  7. seanmac45

    seanmac45 CLM

    Apr 13, 2000
    Brooklyn, NY
    You'll get in eventually, but their security team has a reputation of being a pain in the ass. Remember they are not NYPD. We won't take the hit for them:rofl:
  8. NO problem at the Statute. Just approach and ID yourself, with creds, to the US Park Police at the screening station. You'll be required to secure your weapon and pick it up on the way out.....:wavey:
  9. seanmac45

    seanmac45 CLM

    Apr 13, 2000
    Brooklyn, NY
    Eh, to me that is a problem but I guess you are right.
  10. fla2760


    Aug 12, 2006
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2011
  11. Glockwork Orange

    Glockwork Orange

    Nov 1, 2000
    I can only speak for my own experiences while on NYPD...several times BEFORE LEOSA was in effect, I came across LEO's from other Departments who were on vacation...those LEO's always told me they were armed and they showed their badge/credentials...if those credentials/badge matched their license, they were given a friendly "have a nice day" I can't say the same if you encounter an overzealous rookie who's looking for a "look at me" arrest...I've flew back and forth from XXXXXXX to NYC several times since I left with one or two pistols for CCW and have never had a problem...If you are an LEO then print out and carry a copy of the LEOSA and keep it on your person...if your encounter does not go exactly as I described, then have the officer call for a Patrol Supervisor and/or request he check your credentials through the Operations Division (a system is set up to contact your Department and verify you as an LEO)...If you are an LEO and you have your credentials then carry confidently and be very careful that your CCW does not print and stays concealed...NYC is VERY anti-gun and the sheep get spooked VERY easily when it comes to firearms...NYPD is very friendly to members of other Departments, don't let one or two "stories" deter you...

    P.S. as of me leaving NYPD there was NO training given about LEOSA, so many officers were not aware of it or what it allowed...that might have changed in the last few years though...Good Luck!
  12. Glockwork Orange

    Glockwork Orange

    Nov 1, 2000

    +1, that too!
  13. Glockwork Orange

    Glockwork Orange

    Nov 1, 2000

    My experiences also, except it was always one PA cop...they just escort you from counter to TSA where they check everything before they put your bag on...
  14. 3Speedyfish3


    Jun 12, 2011
    Same experience at JFK. Port Authority PO was friendly after seeing my identification. He offered to jump us up in the security line. Nice guy.
  15. Sippo


    Jul 27, 2010
    OK, Guys. So just to make it more interesting... I'm a Federal Healthcare Provider for the Federal BOP. I meet all of the qualifications (including the authority to arrest provisions) of LEOSA in order to carry off-duty. I requalify annually with firearms and I am certified to carry on duty if circumstances would dictate. I have a memo from the director of the Federal Bureau of Prisons stating this fact.

    I don't carry a badge but I have BOP credentials. The problem I anticipate is LEO's aren't used to dealing with a healthcare provider as an LEO.

    Any thoughts?
  16. buddah


    Oct 3, 2004
    Just remember 2 things in NYC (or anywhere for that matter):
    1) Professional courtesy stops when you become unprofessional
    2) Concealed means concealed.

    For the record the U.S Park Police at Statue of Liberty are very LEO friendly. Just discreetly approached one of the Park cops and discreetly showed him my creds. and asked if they could assist you with expediting the long line. :whistling:
  17. CJStudent

    CJStudent Fenced In

    Nov 3, 2005
    Keep a copy of the LEOSA stuff they issue during IF, and maybe get one of the credential cases that has the badge-like medallion on the outside (like from AD Meyers or Sally's).

    Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
  18. Hack

    Hack Crazy CO Gold Member

    Go to the Sallyport Archives, look up the LEOSA information on there.

    Here is a little help.
  19. Hack

    Hack Crazy CO Gold Member

    Not meaning to thread jack, but there is a valid question on here that I thought I would address for a fellow BOP staff member. I am going to paste a few things here to help the person out.

    1 Management and the Union could not come to a resolution on the matter
    of personal weapon storage for staff on BOP property.
    2 The law should not be interpreted as granting any benefits other than
    the exemption to State and local prohibitions on the carrying of a concealed
    firearm. State and local jurisdictions regulate an individual's ability to
    obtain a firearms permit or purchase a firearm in a variety of ways. For
    example, at least one jurisdiction has imposed a requirement that an
    individual's employer verify the employee's need to carry a firearm off duty
    as a condition of his or her employment. Bureau staff are not required to
    carry a firearm off duty as a condition of employment, and, therefore, the
    Bureau is not responsible for providing a letter of necessity or statement to
    this effect.
    U.S. Department of Justice
    Federal Bureau of Prisons
    Office of the Director Washington, D.C. 20534
    February 27, 2006
    FROM: Harley G. Lappin, Director
    SUBJECT: Guidance Regarding the Law Enforcement Officers
    Safety Act (LEOSA)
    This memorandum provides updated guidance regarding the Law
    Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004 (P.L. 108-277; 18 U.S.C.
    §§ 926B and 926C; July 22, 2004) (LEOSA) as it pertains to Bureau
    of Prisons (Bureau) staff. My March 14, 2005, memorandum to all
    staff titled “Information on Implementation of the Law Enforcement
    Officers Safety Act” is hereby rescinded. Management and the
    Union met in April 2005 over the implementation of LEOSA. All
    matters that were agreed upon between the parties are incorporated
    in this memorandum.1 The President of the Council of Prison
    Locals received a copy of this memorandum prior to issuance.
    LEOSA exempts qualified current and retired law enforcement
    officers from State and local laws that prohibit carrying
    concealed firearms2 (a copy of LEOSA is included with this
    memorandum as an attachment). On January 31, 2005, the
    3 LEOSA defines a qualified current law enforcement officer as an
    employee who (1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the
    prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration
    of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;
    (2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm; (3) is not the subject of
    any disciplinary action by the agency; (4) meets standards, if any,
    established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in
    the use of a firearm; (5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another
    intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and (6) is not prohibited by
    Federal law from receiving a firearm.
    4 The Department’s guidance makes clear that individuals who meet the
    definition of a qualified law enforcement officer under LEOSA may or may not
    meet the definition of a law enforcement officer under the Civil Service
    Retirement System or the Federal Employees Employee Retirement System.
    (Emphasis added.)
    - 2 -
    Department of Justice (Department) issued guidance to all
    components regarding application of LEOSA to current and retired
    Department law enforcement officers (a copy of the Department’s
    guidance is included with this memorandum as an attachment).3
    Most BOP staff who have primary or secondary law enforcement
    status are “law enforcement” officers as defined in LEOSA,
    because most of these staff are “authorized by the agency to
    carry a firearm,” as required by the law (see 18 U.S.C. § 926B
    (c)(2)). But, certain staff who qualify as “law enforcement
    officers” for retirement purposes are NOT “authorized by the
    agency to carry a firearm,” (for example, Chaplains, as discussed
    below). A staff member’s retirement system status (i.e., law
    enforcement status) is a necessary condition but not a sufficient
    condition to determine eligibility under LEOSA.4
    This memorandum should not be construed as the Bureau of Prisons
    encouraging any staff member to take any particular action with
    regard to LEOSA. Staff must continue to abide by Bureau policies
    and/or procedures regarding personal firearms that:
    (1) prohibit staff from carrying or using a personal firearm
    while on duty;
    (2) prohibit personal firearms from being brought into an
    institution or on the grounds of any Federal prison (except
    for personal firearms to be used on an institution firing
    range as authorized by the Warden, where constant possession
    and control of the firearm is maintained);
    5 On April 7, 2005, Management and the Executive Board of the Council of
    Prison Locals agreed that “local supplemental agreements or MOUs negotiated
    under the current Master Agreement remain in effect under the terms of the
    current Master Agreement and are not affected by this guidance unless they are
    contrary to or are in violation of law (statute) or regulation.”
    - 3 -
    (3) prohibit storing personal firearms in Bureau facilities5 or
    in vehicles parked on Bureau property; and
    (4) require personal firearms that are owned by staff in
    reservation housing to be stored in a specified secure area
    other than residences.
    Personal Responsibility of Off-Duty Employees for Carrying/Using
    Concealed Personal Firearms Under LEOSA
    The carrying of concealed personal firearms by off-duty staff
    pursuant to LEOSA is not an extension of official Bureau duties.
    Any actions taken by off-duty staff involving personal firearms
    will not be considered actions within the scope of Bureau
    employment, but rather will be considered actions taken as
    private citizens. Off-duty staff will be individually and
    personally responsible for any event that may relate to the
    carrying or use of a concealed personal firearm under LEOSA.
    Arrest and law enforcement authorities for Bureau employees are
    governed by statute (18 U.S.C. § 3050) (attached), Federal
    regulations (28 C.F.R. §§ 511.10-511.16) (attached), the
    Department of Justice Policy Statement on the Use of Deadly Force
    (attached), and Bureau policy (Program Statement No. 5510.09,
    Searching, Detaining, or Arresting Persons Other than Inmates;
    and Chapter 7 of Program Statement No. 5500.12, Correctional
    Services Procedures Manual on “Firearms and Badges”). These
    authorities may be exercised only in furtherance of official
    Bureau duties as explained in the statute, regulations, and
    program statements. LEOSA does not, within the Act itself, give
    off-duty staff any arrest authority or law enforcement authority.
    Additionally, LEOSA exempts qualified current and retired law
    enforcement officers from State and local laws that prohibit
    “carrying” concealed firearms. LEOSA’s language does not include
    exemptions from State and local laws for any other firearmsrelated
    activities, for example, purchasing, registering,
    licensing, or the permissible use of firearms. It is, therefore,
    incumbent upon off-duty staff to be aware of the laws,
    ordinances, regulations, etc., within their jurisdiction that may
    impact any aspect of their ability to obtain, carry, or use a
    personal firearm under LEOSA.
    - 4 -
    Use of Bureau of Prisons Identification for LEOSA Purposes
    Following Union negotiations, the Bureau has decided to approve
    staff use of Bureau identification cards or credentials for LEOSA
    purposes. Consequently, the Bureau will no longer issue specific
    LEOSA identification cards. Staff who received a LEOSA
    identification card pursuant to the March 14, 2005, guidance must
    return it to the Employee Services Department within two weeks of
    the date of this memorandum.
    Bureau identification cards or credentials may always be used by
    staff to verify Bureau employment to any entity. This includes,
    but is not limited to, presenting your Bureau identification card
    or credentials, when necessary, to another Federal, State, or
    local law enforcement officer for purposes of explaining your
    eligibility to carry a concealed personal firearm in public under
    LEOSA. This situation could arise during a routine traffic stop,
    while shopping in public, or in other situations.
    In these type situations, it is important that off-duty staff not
    misrepresent that they are acting in furtherance of their
    official Bureau duties. There should never be a time when offduty
    staff claim to be carrying a concealed personal firearm as
    part of their Bureau employment or in furtherance of their
    official Bureau duties.
    LEOSA does not alter the Bureau’s policy which allows the use of
    Bureau credentials to obtain permissible discounts offered to a
    broad class of Government employees (see Bureau Program Statement
    No. 3420.09, Standards of Employee Conduct, Section 17.c).
    Neither does LEOSA change the Bureau’s policy regarding badges.
    Official Bureau identification badges will be issued to staff
    only when they are assigned to duties that require the carrying
    of a firearm (see Bureau Program Statement No. 5500.12,
    Correctional Services Procedures Manual, Section 705).
    Outside Employment
    The Bureau rescinds its categorical prohibition on outside
    employment which requires the use of a firearm (see Bureau
    Program Statement No. 3420.09, Standards of Employee Conduct,
    Section 18). The Program Statement will be amended to reflect
    this change.
    Employees are reminded that pursuant to 5 C.F.R. § 3801.106(b)(ii)
    they are still prohibited from engaging in outside employment
    that involves criminal matters. “Criminal matters,” for this
    purpose, includes involvement with a Federal, State, or local law
    enforcement agency, or with inmates as defined in the Standards
    of Conduct, or with State and local inmates. In addition, the
    6 See Bureau Program Statement No. 3420.09, Standards of Employee
    Conduct, for a review of what is considered to be disciplinary action by the
    - 5 -
    prohibition covers outside employment that requires being
    deputized, granted police powers or arrest authority, or
    involvement with the courts. All requests for outside employment
    that require the carrying of a firearm must be reviewed and
    approved by the staff member’s immediate supervisor, CEO, and the
    Ethics Office prior to beginning the outside employment.
    Specific examples of prohibited outside employment may include,
    but are not limited to: auxiliary, reserve, or regular police
    officers; sheriffs or deputy sheriffs; and other positions that
    provide police or arrest powers to enforce criminal laws.
    Specific examples of permissible outside employment may include,
    but are not limited to: a property repossessor charged with
    recovering property on behalf of a financial institution, a store
    security guard, positions involving search and rescue operations,
    and other positions that do not require the use of police powers
    or arrest authority, but may allow the carrying of a firearm.
    Disciplinary Action
    To be a qualified law enforcement officer for purposes of LEOSA,
    an employee must not be “the subject of any disciplinary action
    by the agency.”6 For this purpose, the Bureau considers an
    employee to be the subject of “any disciplinary action” when the
    decision letter is issued to the employee (meaning, disciplinary
    action begins). Disciplinary action ends when all sanctions that
    were issued are completed. “Disciplinary action” includes both
    disciplinary and adverse actions as stated in the Master
    Agreement and Title 5 C.F.R. Part 3801. For demotion actions and
    letters of reprimand, the sanction is deemed completed on the
    date the letter rendering the demotion action or the letter of
    reprimand is issued.
    Public Health Service Officers
    Public Health Service (PHS) officers detailed to the Bureau do
    not have the statutory powers of arrest conferred upon Bureau
    staff by 18 U.S.C. § 3050 (see 28 C.F.R. § 511.10(b)).
    Consequently, these PHS officers do not meet one of the necessary
    criteria in the LEOSA definition of a “qualified law enforcement
    officer,” and do not qualify to carry a concealed personal
    firearm pursuant to LEOSA.
    - 6 -
    Bureau Program Statement No. 3939.07, Chaplains’ Employment,
    Responsibilities, and Endorsements, expressly prohibits chaplains
    from participating in firearms training, which likewise prohibits
    them from being issued firearms to perform official Bureau
    duties. Consequently, because chaplains are not “authorized by
    the agency to carry a firearm,” they do not meet one of the
    necessary criteria to be a “qualified law enforcement officer”
    for LEOSA purposes, and do not qualify to carry a concealed
    personal firearm pursuant to LEOSA.
    Employees For Whom Firearms Qualification is Optional
    Employees in non-institution, primary or secondary law
    enforcement status (e.g., Central Office and Regional staff), may
    choose to complete the Bureau’s firearms qualification program in
    order to remain authorized to be issued a firearm as part of
    official Bureau duties. Such staff should consult with their
    Employee Services Department to determine the most appropriate
    method for qualifying. Most likely, the Employee Services
    Department will have to coordinate with a Bureau facility that
    provides firearms qualification to determine a suitable time for
    non-institution staff.
    Retired Law Enforcement Officers
    Some Bureau retirees who were law enforcement officers will wish
    to take advantage of this law. The guidance from the Department
    requires that a retiree’s identification include the name of
    the individual, the individual’s photograph, an identification
    number traceable to the bearer, the date the employee retired
    in good standing, and the phrase “Retired Law Enforcement
    Officer.” Guidance regarding the issuing of the required
    identification cards to retirees is contained in a March 30,
    2005, memorandum from W. Elaine Chapman, Acting Assistant
    Director, Human Resource Management Division, to Employee
    Services Administrators and Managers titled “Additional Guidance
    and Procedures for Bureau Retirees to Obtain a Law Enforcement
    Officers Safety Act Identification Card.”
    The Bureau will not be responsible for training or qualifying
    retirees to carry a concealed personal firearm under LEOSA. In
    order to be authorized under LEOSA to carry a firearm, a Bureau
    retiree must qualify in accordance with State standards for
    active law enforcement officers, as provided in LEOSA (18 U.S.C.
    § 926C(d)(2)(B)), and the guidance from the Department.
    Copies of LEOSA to Employees
    All Bureau employees will be provided a copy of this guidance
    memorandum and its attachments and are required to sign to
    acknowledge receipt of these documents.
    Acknowledgment of Receipt of Guidance Materials
    Regarding the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004
    I have received a copy of the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act
    (P.L. 108-277); the Bureau of Prisons February 27, 2006,
    memorandum titled “Guidance Regarding the Law Enforcement
    Officers Safety Act (LEOSA);” the Department of Justice’s January
    31, 2005, memorandum titled “Guidance on the Application of the
    Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004 to Current and
    Retired Department of Justice Law Enforcement Officers,” title 18
    U.S.C. § 3050; 28 C.F.R. §§ 511.10-511.16, and the Department of
    Justice Policy Statement on the Use of Deadly Force.
    Staff Member Printed Name
    Staff Member Signature
    Date Signed
    Place this form on the left side of the employee’s Official
    Personnel Folder
    Title 18, United States Code
    § 3050. Bureau of Prisons employees’ powers
    An officer or employee of the Bureau of Prisons may—
    (1) make arrests on or off of Bureau of Prisons property without warrant for violations of
    the following provisions regardless of where the violation may occur: sections 111
    (assaulting officers), 751 (escape), and 752 (assisting escape) of title 18, United States
    Code, and section 1826 (c) (escape) of title 28, United States Code;
    (2) make arrests on Bureau of Prisons premises or reservation land of a penal, detention,
    or correctional facility without warrant for violations occurring thereon of the following
    provisions: sections 661 (theft), 1361 (depredation of property), 1363 (destruction of
    property), 1791 (contraband), 1792 (mutiny and riot), and 1793 (trespass) of title 18,
    United States Code; and
    (3) arrest without warrant for any other offense described in title 18 or 21 of the United
    States Code, if committed on the premises or reservation of a penal or correctional
    facility of the Bureau of Prisons if necessary to safeguard security, good order, or
    government property;
    if such officer or employee has reasonable grounds to believe that the arrested person is guilty of
    such offense, and if there is likelihood of such person’s escaping before an arrest warrant can be
    obtained. If the arrested person is a fugitive from custody, such prisoner shall be returned to
    custody. Officers and employees of the said Bureau of Prisons may carry firearms under such
    rules and regulations as the Attorney General may prescribe.
  20. Sippo


    Jul 27, 2010
    Thanks, Hack.