Legally open carrying combat vet sues over Wyoming traffic stop

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by RussP, Sep 28, 2012.

  1. But what was the purpose of asking if the motorist was OPEN CARRYING? That seems as dumb to me as looking at the sky and asking if it is blue. Non consent to a search would not hide the fact he had a firearm. :dunno:

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  2. John Rambo

    John Rambo Raven

    I read that first paragraph 4 times and still don't exactly get it, but I think someone needs to be kicked in the ass.

  3. I try to give informative, unbiased opinions. :D
  4. "Sir, I stopped you because there is a report that you passed slower moving vehicles at a high rate of speed according to the driver of the slow moving vehicle."

    That's fine, Officer, did you observe me speeding or disobeying any traffic laws?
    "No. May I see your license?"

    Sure, do you intend to issue a citation for speeding or any other citation based on what you observed?"
    "I didn't see you do anything, it's another motorist that called."

    Do you intend to issue a citation based on that information?
    "I can't, as I said I'm not the one that saw you."

    Do you have that motorists name so they can be called to testify against me for the citation that you're not going to write because you didn't observe any violations?"
    "I'm not issuing you a danged citation, what part of that didn't you get?"

    Oh, I got that part alright.
    #64 FourthPointOfContact, Oct 22, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2012
  5. SCmasterblaster

    Millennium Member


  6. I will offer a slightly different roadside conversation:

    "Sir, may I see your license, registration and insurance please"

    "Why did you stop me?" / "I did nothing wrong" / "I wasn't speeding/didn't run the light/did stop at the sign/there was no sign. Why do you need my license?"

    "Sir, may I see your license,registration and insurance please?"

    "But I did / didn't /need to know.."

    "Stop. I am not going to ask you again. Give me your driver's license. The law (or state specific statute) requires you to have and display a license. I am not going to ask again. Give me your license or you will be arrested."

    Drivers choice at this point.

    That said, any news regarding the civil suit?
    #67 Bruce M, Oct 22, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2012
  7. Since the officer has initiated a traffic stop, refusing to display/surrender a driving license isn't really an option, at least to me.
    On the other hand, I can't see anything wrong with encouraging the officer to write whatever citation he intends to write; and if he doesn't intend to write a citation, why have I been detained?

    OT, the civil suit proceeds apace (the insurance company for Plaza Security made a monetary offer of $(redacted but I really wish I had a dollar for every Km between Paris, France and Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan) to have one individual dropped from the suit. One condition was that the details not be shared lest it incur a $100 penalty. :rofl:

    Currently we're waiting for the transcription of Officer's Bell and Dantzler's depositions.
  8. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist
    Lifetime Member

    Is post #64 an actual verbatim account of the beginning of the stop?

    or was that a hypothetical, "this is how I would act on a traffic stop if I were a jackass?"
    #69 Dragoon44, Oct 22, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2012
  9. My apologies Dragoon, I didn't think that anyone would have difficulties. Yes, it's hypothetical of how an officer might act if he was a jackhole.

    If a cop's fishing for information to develop probable cause, I don't have any problem baiting a hook and throwing in a line just like he's doing. It's interesting the things they can inadvertently admit when they get all flustered. Ask the right questions and you can get them to admit that
    A) they lack any reasonable articulable suspicion of criminal conduct to initiate a detainment
    B) that they know certain conduct is legal and
    C) sometimes, you might even get them to admit under oath that they signed their name to a sworn document, knowing at the time of signing that the statement was false..... or so I've heard.
    #70 FourthPointOfContact, Oct 22, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2012
  10. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist
    Lifetime Member

    So telling someone why they stopped them is fishing for probable cause?


    And that is relevant how exactly?

    Here is something your lawyer should have already told you. Traffic stops do not require probable cause. Probable cause is needed only for an arrest. NOT for a traffic stop\ investigative detention.
  11. Thanks, Dragoon, I should have said "Reasonable Suspicion" it's since been corrected. Oh, and since I read and understand English I don't need a lawyer to help me understand the law. I can see where that might be the case for some.
    #72 FourthPointOfContact, Oct 22, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2012
  12. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist
    Lifetime Member

    And to think of all those years of law school that lawyers go thru when all they really need to do is read and understand English!


    So you are saying you do not have a lawyer?
  13. Lawyers go to law school not to understand the law but to think like a lawyer. Understanding that "(b)(1) No county or municipal corporation, by zoning or by ordinance, resolution, or other enactment, shall regulate in any manner gun shows; the possession, ownership, transport, carrying, transfer, sale, purchase, licensing, or registration of firearms or components of firearms; firearms dealers; or dealers in firearms components" is hardly rocket science even though there are a lot of multisyllabic in there.

    I have one for the civil suit involving Officer's Adam Bell and Rodney Dantzler, yes. I'm pretty sure they (or their department) has retained counsel for them as well. But that's distracting from this thread and better addressed in Man files suit over arrest in Gwinnett park, Part Deux

    I'm sure it's no one you may have heard of though, just a hick lawyer in a hick town.:cool:
    #74 FourthPointOfContact, Oct 22, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2012
  14. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist
    Lifetime Member

    That is very true, and the first thing they learn is to stop thinking that just because they can read English they understand the law.
  15. The link does not work anymore. The problem with lawsuits is that only between ten and twenty percent are successful and the rest get dismissed at summary judgment. I wish him luck.
  16. SCmasterblaster

    Millennium Member

    take it from me, a bike rider and G17 carrier for twelve years now. :cool:

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