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Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by HerrGlock, Jul 12, 2012.
Let see, 54% of assaults on campuses are with firearms, yes sir, keeping the students unarmed works out just fine................... For the criminals.
I don't have a problem with keeping firearms off of campus. The notion that other armed students could and would jump in and take on an active shooter(s) is pretty far fetched. Let the Police handle College Campuses.
Wrong way to look at a right.
Where has it been proven that having concealed firearms on campus has ever been a problem? You've got a few decades of data to look to find it.
If you cannot prove actual harm then the default should always be leaning towards civil liberties.
Where has there ever been harm allowing this?
(hint: If you even consider answering anything resembling no college allows firearms on campus that will prove to all you have not looked into this topic at all)
Not only is it not far fetched... If you do a little research, you'll find out that the opposite of what you believe has actually happened...
So the conclusion is that non-gun student paranoia is the problem with guns on campus.
What an argument.
Appalachian School of Law
University Of Texas
What if Liviu Librescu had a gun?
Well, they have you brainwashed.
As a trained and POST certified peace officer in state of Georgia, who also happens to live in a town with 30,000 college students, I stand by my initial statement.
Tell me more about this "they".
Don't care how you feel about it, what overwhelming evidence do you have in the history of students carrying concealed legally that shows the right should be restricted?
It's a right. You must show overwhelming evidence as to why it should be ... let's use the word infringed.
In my state carrying on a state college campus was legal, but against school policy. I got my bachelors degree with a Beretta 92fs and a spare mag in my backpack.
I knew using it would get me kicked out of school, but legally I was free of wrongdoing.
If an active shooter came in the school I was not worried about violating school policy.
I kept my backpack in my grasp at all times.
I bet the 32 killed at Virginia Tech would disagree. Just for starters.
Be careful there, big-boy...there's always someone out there bigger AND crazier than you (not to mention those armed and also trained fighters, bigger does always = winner in a fight). Try not to be overconfident!
This statement would also include teachers.
What about armed security? What about POST certified LE?
You made a blanket statement.
Of course you are not going to make a rule (that will be followed) to keep those with intent to do harm from carrying a firearm on campus.
The actual evidence is that both students and teachers have effectively used firearms to cease the (further) actions of active shooters on high school and college campuses. If it has happened in several events, it is not far fetched - no matter how you stand by your statements. Even those who have been active shooters who were apprehended because of legal carriers of firearms would disagree with you on your statement, much less those innocents who were saved from further harm.
Can you cite a single case where a student or teacher - legally possessing a firearm - has created further harm when responding to an active shooter on campus?
Police can take several minutes to get there, and that's all it takes to kill a whole bunch of people.
I'm not saying that a bunch of armed students will be able to form a cohesive strike team to take down an active shooter lickety split, but if somebody in math class hears gun fire I think they would have a much better chance if they had the right to arm themselves.
Here in iowa campus carry is not "illegal", however campus "policy" is strongly against it. You can be suspended or expelled, and that will not look good on a college transcript to get into other schools.
It's worth noting that here, there are no actual security measures whatsoever. There are no guards, no metal detectors, no cameras. We have electronic number locks on the doors that everyone knows the answers to. (because they're all the room number followed by 0#)
I would like to see colleges taken down a peg on this issue because in my mind they take it too far by putting up signs saying no weapons (of any kind) are allowed in their parking lots. I get that property owners have rights, but if people can't bring guns on campus or even leave them in their vehicles, then they cannot utilize their rights on the way to and from class.
A guest visiting the college can carry, because the worst that can happen is they would be asked to leave, but a student can face far more severe penalties (suspension, expulsion, possibly stopping them from getting into other schools) not because it is against the law but because the college has a relationship with the student that allows them to take something valued away.
Also there was an incident at the apalachian school of law where two students, one current and one former police officer, were able to retrieve guns from their vehicles and confront a shooter who then surrendered.
If you want a source on that I'm sure I can find it, I've used that case in several college essays, but don't have it right now at 10:35 at night.
My final argument is to counter the perception propogated by gun control groups such as the brady campaign that we are not mature enough to handle the responsibility by saying we are college students, not highschool students. While there are many drugged out chronically drunk idiots in college, most of us are not living our lives in accordance with the values taught in American Pie movies.
Re: OP. For the most part... no. Why? Don't trust college aged students. It's that simple. Just simply do not trust them to act responsibly. Do not consider that they needs to be playing cowboy. Constitutional right? Yes. So what. The institution has every right to set it's own policies... and the students have every obligation to comply with those policies. It's no different than a business, hospital, etc., permitting or not permitting cc/oc on its property/campus.
Where were the VA Tech campus police and how did they in any way prevent Cho from murdering 32 fellow students? From all I've read the campus police were still trying to figure out what was happening when those students and Cho were already dead.
As a LEO are you seriously claiming that a delayed response from SWORN officers like that in the above example is preferable to immediate civilian response? Armed civilian response in an immediate fashion that may have saved the lives of most of Cho's victims?
Yes, it's different.
If a school is a private school, zero tax money used for it, then it's exactly like a business outside and should be allowed to permit or not as it sees fit.
If a school takes tax money then it is a public institution and the CCW law should override anything the school passes. This is the way it's gone in CO courts and you see how much trouble CCW has been in University of Colorado, right? All public universities in Utah are overrun by people misusing legal CCW, right?
An unfounded fear is called a phobia. People's rights should never be curtailed due to phobias of others.
Making them illegal on campus hasn't stopped criminals either.