close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Welcome to Glock Talk

Why should YOU join our Glock forum?

  • Converse with other Glock Enthusiasts
  • Learn about the latest hunting products
  • Becoming a member is FREE and EASY

If you consider yourself a beginner or an avid shooter, the Glock Talk community is your place to discuss self defense, concealed carry, reloading, target shooting, and all things Glock.

Legal Question for the Experts:D

Discussion in 'Band of Glockers' started by castorTroy, Dec 27, 2005.

  1. castorTroy

    castorTroy

    3
    0
    Dec 7, 2005
    Someone asked me this question, and made me wonder about it as well. This is just a legal question so I hope no one here thinks I am encouraging any illegal behavior. ;b

    Let us suppose you had a gun and its necessary valid documents, such as its license and your permit to carry it outside the residence.
    One day, since you are feeling uneasy about going to a particular bar(but for some reason still go), you bring your gun inside(which is illegal under the terms provided by the PTCFOR).
    While inside the bar, you had to kill someone in self-defense.
    Here's the question: Given that the "self-defense defense" is undisputed, what crime, if any, could you be charged with and what are the potential sentences for such crimes? ;b
     

  2. deenoh

    deenoh

    615
    0
    Feb 3, 2003
    Philippines
    homicide i guess since you killed the person
     
  3. cznayr

    cznayr Dis-member

    320
    0
    Jun 14, 2004
    You will be charged of violating the terms and condition of the PTCFOR and it may result in the confiscation of your firearm.

    but the more pressing concern is you will still be charged with homicide. If proven to be done in self defense, then it will be ruled as a justifiable homicide. But then again that would be hard to prove, since you were not suppose to bring the firearm inside an establishment. Mens rea or your criminal intent would be stressed by the prosecutors by bringing your gun inside which is not allowed.

    The scenario would complicate things, did he have a fork to stab you with? ;f

    Inside a bar, the best thing would be to walk away from trouble makers... well, if he follows you to your car outside that's another thing.. you could be imaginative ;f

    Seriously, sabi nga ng aking sensei.. Madaling bumili ng gulo at away mahirap lumabas...


    Then again, I'm not a legal expert.. expert sa tomaan pwede pa :cool: Pagalingan na lang kayo ng abugado pag nagkataon...
     
  4. isuzu

    isuzu

    4,072
    0
    Jul 3, 2005
    North America
    You're in deep s**t! When you signed your name in the PTC, you agreed to abide by the provisions. There will be a lot of questions asked, and a lot of money spent to the delight of the lawyers.
     
  5. I guess it still depends on the situation as you or the witnesses would describe.

    But if I were a brother, wife or parent of the one you killed, I'd go for your jugular: nothing less than murder. But that's for the fiscal to decide upon appreciation of the evidences and the manifestation of specific conditions that make it so. I guess bringing in a weapon in a no-carry zone puts you at a grave situation already.

    Just my 2 centavos ;)
     
  6. PMMA97

    PMMA97 MNSAmessdetail

    1,743
    0
    Nov 25, 2003
    Subic Bay, Philippines
    Seems to me it's like accidentally killing somebody with a car or being engaged in a traffic accident (even if your on the right of way) when you don't have a drivers license. You should not have been in the streets in the first place.
     
  7. isuzu

    isuzu

    4,072
    0
    Jul 3, 2005
    North America
    Yup, bringing a firearm in an area restricted by the conditions on your PTC is a violation in itself. Shooting somebody in that area is just like putting salt on a wound. There are just no excuses for bringing a firearm in areas prohibited by the conditions set on the PTC.
     
  8. riddler

    riddler

    1,183
    0
    Jan 19, 2001
    Then why go??

    If you feel that it is not safe, then by going, you are exercising bad judgement. Add a handgun to the scenario and you definitely are pushing your luck.

    I do not know with you but a responsible gun owner IMHO will avoid trouble rather than seek it.
     
  9. darwin25

    darwin25 Make your move

    I agree, you will be the one who will be charged having criminal intent. And proving that you acted in self-defense would be a long shot at best IMHO.
     
  10. MELBU

    MELBU Ann2Tero

    Mismo bro cznayr
     
  11. s.g

    s.g

    159
    0
    Mar 13, 2003
    Philippines
    Would it in any way affect whatever charges that would be leveled against castorTroy if the hypothetical person he shot was also armed with a gun?
     
  12. toxic

    toxic

    1,491
    0
    Jan 15, 2005
    doin' time
    Just forget the word "Bahala na"
    Stay away from hot spots or kung di makaiwas iwan mo yung baril mo sa sasakyan or asked the guard to keep it for you.
    Remember GUN and Alcohol is a Big No No : a Bad JUJU dont take any chance/s.
    Kung matigas ulo carry parin kahit nakainom or iinom sa bar, kahit saaang husgado talo ka kung mababaw ang bulsa. As one BOG implied pagalingan na lang ng abogado o palakasan ng connections o paramihan ng pera.
     
  13. Kiddo

    Kiddo

    560
    0
    Jun 14, 2003
    I think that it wouldn't matter much in a sense that even though the defendant shot an armed man, he violated his PTC anyway and they might say that he was intentionally looking to shoot it out with someone. Like toxic said, alcohol and guns produce potentially dangerous situations. You could have one, but not both at the same time. IMHO.
     
  14. Ersatz0906

    Ersatz0906

    263
    0
    Oct 23, 2005
    Philippines
    how about commercial establishment? mga malls yan right?

    kasi security guard here sa mall namin when he know you have a gun he will let go inside the mall after you log in your info in thier log book.

    what if you shot a guy inside the mall? is it still ilegal posession?
     
  15. cznayr

    cznayr Dis-member

    320
    0
    Jun 14, 2004
    The first question the prosecutors would ask you is that, why would you bring a gun in a mall? The scenario is very much the same as the bar case.

    Besides, being a responsible gun owner, you know that a gun is prohibited inside the mall so why still bring it?

    Here's an interesting fact that gun slingers here should know. There have been self defense shooting cases in the U.S. where the BG was shot in the chest and back area. The lawyers of the BG argued that the guy was shot in the back and the shooters should be charged with homicide. The lawyers of the shooters got a gun expert to render their "technical knowledge" for the case. The experts showed a video simulation where a shooter doing double taps or successive shots could only stop at the third shot after the supposed BG charged and was shot and then turned around because of gunshots.

    The case was that of hammer carrying thief charging at a gun armed owner of the establishment (the thief didn't know that the owner had a gun and instinctively charged at the owner when surprised).

    Ganun pala ang reaction ng nabaril ng wala siyang kaalam alam na may baril pala ang kalaban. Pagkatama sa kaniya ay tumalikod at tatakbo sana. Kaso nga ang shooter ay di kaagad makakareact na huminto until the 2nd or third shot. You can't assume that a single shot could stop your attacker di ba? It has something to do with the PRT (Perception Reaction Time).

    The case was ruled as a justifiable homicide. Baka lang sakaling mangyari sa atin (huwag naman sana), at least meron tayong maisagot at makatulong sa mga abugado natin sa pagdedepensa.
     
  16. isuzu

    isuzu

    4,072
    0
    Jul 3, 2005
    North America
    Just read the fine print in the conditions of your PTC. You'll find all the answers there.
     
  17. Ersatz0906

    Ersatz0906

    263
    0
    Oct 23, 2005
    Philippines
    I did...

    Thats why Im asking why the secu still allow you to bring it inside...


    reason why did you bring it to the mall?

    maybe Because the Glock is to light that I forget to left it in the car and the secu dont mind so I bring it in.

    maybe your car broke down, so you ride the taxi to the mall

    my car has a broken glass so its much more dangerous to left the gun in the car, someone might steal it and use it in a crime...

    people I know bring thier gun so I do too

    :)
     
  18. cznayr

    cznayr Dis-member

    320
    0
    Jun 14, 2004
    Well to each his own.. a lot of maybes..

    Yung sa amin lang eh, mga suggestions para di mapasubo sa gulo at mapariwara... If you still insist in bringing your gun to the mall just because others are doing it and di ka nakakatiyempo ng oplan bakal at feeling mo eh mapapalaban ka ng barilan sa loob.. well, by all means do so ;f
     
  19. castorTroy

    castorTroy

    3
    0
    Dec 7, 2005
    Yeah, it'd probably very difficult as u guys said to actually prove that it was self-defense. Except of course, as some of yo have said, you've gotta lotta money or got some high-up connections.
    That thing with the malls, as posted with Ersatz, is actually kinda tricky. The provision in the PTC containing "commercial establishments" is too encomapassing and our lawmakers or whoever made that particular line didn't have better words to make it more specific. It covers pretty much all establishments where exchange of money occurs, which is quite a whole lot of places including gun repair shops and turo-turos! As a result, the provision loses its intended effect since many don't mind it altogether.
    ;b