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lead bullet problem

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by illrooster132, Oct 13, 2011.

  1. illrooster132

    illrooster132

    727
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    Sep 8, 2007
    miami
    hello .I've been having this little problem. im reloading lead 9mm bullets. problem is that some bullets dont sit all the way in an after market G19 barrel:dunno:. they sit ok in my hi power but not in the G19 barrel.:wow:
    any one had this experience before? what can cause and whats the fix?:shocked:
    for now im checking my reloads with both barrels to sort'em out, but it gets tiring .:embarassed:
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2011
  2. GioaJack

    GioaJack Conifer Jack

    10,016
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    Apr 14, 2009
    Conifer, CO
    Being lead rather than jacketed or plated really has nothing to do with your problem... that lies in the fact that you're not loading for a particular barrel.

    Consider barrels the same way you would look at snowflakes, no two are alike. Just because one loaded round will function in the barrel of a given make of gun has no correlation what-so-ever that it will function in another gun of the same barrel.

    When loading for a particular gun, (barrel), forget how you're loading for another one of your guns and determine your OAL by doing a simple barrel drop test. You may find that you need to use a different OAL for three different guns.

    Forget about manual published OAL's or OAL's listed by forum posters, they have no relation to what you're trying to accomplish for your guns.

    Contrary to popular, misguided belief, a set of calipers is not needed for successful and safe loading... it is simply a matter of learning what to do.

    (The use of calipers does make for a lively discussion at lunch with Little Stevie however.)


    Jack
     


  3. illrooster132

    illrooster132

    727
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    Sep 8, 2007
    miami
    well. the aol does not seem to be the problem, is more like the case is thicker at the bottom for some reason. i was thinking that a case gauge could be of use here. ( I dont have one , never had the need for one as I used to load fmj )
     
  4. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

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    Jun 12, 2002
    North Carolina
    Either your OAL is the problem, as Jack points out, or you need a LRCH more crimp. Those aftermarket barrels everyone seems to think people need for Glocks are notorious for tight chambers. Make you 9mm rounds into 8.8mm rounds and they will fit fine. Or, you can use the stock barrel and your life will be a lot easier.
     
  5. GioaJack

    GioaJack Conifer Jack

    10,016
    1
    Apr 14, 2009
    Conifer, CO
    A case gauge will tell you less than a barrel drop test, there is no real reason to have one. You might want to check two things first. Are you removing the bell/flare sufficiently to allow the round to drop freely into the barrel? This will mimic a round that is not sized properly.

    Did you, for some reason change the setting on your sizer die... is it adjusted down to the shell plate so it sizes the case completely?

    It is not unusual to have an after market barrel with a tighter chamber, actually seems to be the norm rather than the exception but usually it manifests itself in feeding problems rather than simply too tight to accept a dropped in round.


    Jack
     
  6. fredj338

    fredj338

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    so.cal.
    Sounds like you have one or more issues. Drop a sized only case into the chamber, if it fits, then it's not the case. Then drop a dummy round in w/ a lead bullet, always crimp. If it doesn't fit, try seating 0.001" deeper until it does. Then if shooting near the top end loads, adjust your powder charged down 0.1-0.2gr depending on how much deeper you seat. As Jack notes, OAL is ALWAYS gun & bullet specific, regardless of what any data source tells you.
    Most after market bbls have tighter specs & often shorter throats. You'll have to adjust accordingly. If your FMJ fit, it's not likely the case UNLESS the chamber dims are minimal. Then an oversized lead bullet may not fit. BTW, it would help if you told us the bullets you are trying to use??????
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2011
  7. ColoCG

    ColoCG

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    Mar 18, 2011
    Colorado
    I agree with what Jack, Wisky, and Fred have all said. Your shouldn't be loading to fit a case guage, you should be loading to fit your tight chambered barrel, and adjust accordingly.
     
  8. jsnake

    jsnake

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    Jun 9, 2009
    Some great advice from Jack, again. I "plunk" test rounds in the barrel I am planning to shoot.
     
  9. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

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    Nov 2, 2006
    CO
    Let me guess. Lone Wolf Barrel? Even KKM and SL suffer from the same issue. LW seems to be more erratic and tighter for some reason. You going to need to load short, much shorter then you think wise. I load my 147gr Lyman Lead Bullets to 1.080" in 9mm. Thats actually pretty normal.
     
  10. illrooster132

    illrooster132

    727
    60
    Sep 8, 2007
    miami
    this are kkm and lwb barrels. i think the barrel are a bit tighter than oem. what confuses me is that i have some round that drop ok and some dont. i will have to check the case brand.
    a crimp die is on the " to buy list now ".
    thanx for the coments and help folks.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2011
  11. Have you been on a Rocky Mountain high again my friend?
    You mean the OAL listed in manuals can be ignored? Always?
     
  12. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

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    Jun 12, 2002
    North Carolina
    You don't need a crimp die. You need to ensure that your seating die is adjusted properly. You don't need the aftermarket barrels either.
     
  13. GioaJack

    GioaJack Conifer Jack

    10,016
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    Apr 14, 2009
    Conifer, CO
    Long ago, in a far away land when large toothed creatures and demons ruled the darkness OAL's published in loading manuals were minimum OAL which corresponded with their published pressure data. (They may still be published as minimum OAL as far as I know... I don't pay any attention to them. Yes I know, I'm a bad boy.)

    Reloads can easily be produced, (safe and accurate) without the use of calipers as long as one learns the basics of loading and the principals behind it.

    There are several of us lurking around here, and many, many elsewhere that loaded for years without owning calipers simply because we couldn't afford them and learned how to load without them. My first caliper was a plastic one from Lyman, (still have it, Little Stevie and Zombie Steve have seen it although I didn't let Zombie touch it 'cause it would have ended up in pieces), and had the accuracy of a smoothbore musket at 500 yards.

    As I mentioned before and as Fred has harped on since the day before they invented dirt, published OAL's, (except for minimums for safety sake and even those can be a mere guide if you know what you're doing), mean absolutely nothing since they will always be barrel or cylinder specific.

    Oh, and I'm always on a Rocky Mountain High, just like John Denver... although it didn't work out all that well for him.


    Jack
     
  14. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

    11,682
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    Jun 12, 2002
    North Carolina
    They are guidelines and probably help to keep the given bullet within SAAMI standards, which should fit all barrels. Honeslty, the only people that seem to have problems with OAL are those shooting oddball guns made 70 years ago or those using aftermarket snakeoil barrels.
     
  15. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

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    They still basically are as you describe. Essentially they are the OAL the load was developed at. You can go longer with out cause for concern of overpressure. You can't go lower with out being aware that it will increase pressure. That's just basic stuff really. What people always fail to understand at the start is that the OAL in a manual has zero correlation to what will work in your barrel. Especially a LW or a KKM type barrel.
     
  16. Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't a round that fits a case gauge fit any barrel made for the same caliber? :dunno:
     
  17. GioaJack

    GioaJack Conifer Jack

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    Apr 14, 2009
    Conifer, CO
    Think of a case gauge as a device used to measure width rather than length... kinda like how some guys rationalize.

    Although it would certainly be easy enough to make a case gauge for a specific barrel that would no guarantee that the produced round would have the correct OAL for a different barrel.

    Unless one is afflicted with some handicap that prevents them from removing the barrel from their gun it really is a non-issue.


    Jack
     
  18. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

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    Jun 12, 2002
    North Carolina
    It would if the case guage and barrels were all made to the same standards.
     
  19. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

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    Most case gauges are just like a short tube with a shoulder for the case to butt up against. Then the length of the tube is the max length for that caliber. The small hole is slightly larger then the size of a bullet. So you can drop a bullet through the gauge and it will slide right through. For a gauge to check the bullet fit to a chamber it would have to be made with a chamber reamer and the hole past the shoulder smaller then the bullet (size of a barrel). Only one made like that to my knowledge is the EGW. Even then you have no idea if the reamer they used to make that gauge is the same as was used to make your barrel. Basically, it has very little chance. I know the EGW is actually made smaller and tighter then my KKM barrel. So if it fit the gauge it fit my barrel. But many that didn't fit the gauge still fit the KKM barrel. It wasn't the case that was not fitting the gauge. It was the barrel portion of the gauge. So I opened the gauge up a little with a chamber reamer. Now they match in my common bullet size. I know that is a lot of detail. Basically, I made a case gauge that is a perfect match with my specific barrel and that specific bullet.
     
  20. fredj338

    fredj338

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    As Jack notes, a case gage tells you if the round fits the chamber, not if the OAL is correct. There is nor bbl or rifling for the bullet to run into. So while useful, the case gage tells you zero about the proper OAL for YOUR gun & bullet. As always, OAL is gun & bullet specific.