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Keg's 10mm hunting load quest thread.

Discussion in '10mm Reloading Forum' started by Kegs, Aug 29, 2010.

  1. Kegs

    Kegs Ol 8 fingers ;)

    Oct 26, 2009
    Cold side of conus
    I'm going to use this thread to refer back to as I have more and more hand-loading and re-loading information to post. Right now it's only going to involve 1 powder (800x) and 1 bullet (200gr. xtp in 10mm) but I would rather not post it in the stickied thread due to throwing in other information.

    So yesterday (8/28/10) was the first time I have ever bought or used a chrono in my life. I have learned a valuable lesson during the last two days regarding chrono use - but more on that later in the thread. :supergrin:

    My quest for this load started about 10 years ago during a Colorado elk hunting season that found me dragging a big 24" barreled scoped Browning A-bolt through the spruce and gambel oak on the side of 45 degree hills where there happened to be several giant bull elk running up and down various times of the short autumn days. I found myself in a predicament more than once where the big gun, bipod, sling and 6-24x leupold were just not the right tools for that otherwise productive area.

    After several years of prior hunting the high up country (10K+ ASL) where long shots were necessary to hit anything, I found that there is lower ground out there that is just as challenging to hunt, and even more productive and advantageous for various reasons - but I learned a different tool was necessary. My conclusion was that in this spot (and many other similar travel/migration routes), a short barreled weapon with open sights would have a distinct advantage over a scoped rifle.

    I had a progression of firearms I have purchased and sold since going big game hunting last and coupled with various experiments with "modular" arms and other items that have multiple uses, my experience over the years has led me to a preference of extreme practicality. So my current quest as it relates with firearms is I have made the decision to purchase a handgun (in the case the G29SF) that can serve multiple roles;

    Concealable self-defense.
    Multiple caliber capability (modularity).
    Practical for hunting small game
    Practical for hunting medium-large game.

    So right now I have a G29SF with an Advantage arms upper + 2 mags that will allow me to use the small pistol to hunt anything from squirrels to Moose.

    One of the constraints I chose to meet when deciding what weapons system to purchase was Colorado's "elk hunting" centerfire pistol requirement of producing 550 ft/lbs. of energy at 50 yards.

    So as I examined the various rounds that offer that level of firepower, yet are still concealable, I settled on the 10mm being "it". Due to the modularity, cost, and manufacturer support, I chose the Glock 29 as the model I wanted to use for these purposes.

    This brings us up to the current situation: I am developing a 10mm load I can use for hunting big game.

    After exhaustive reading on this forum and others and considering the opinions of many people who I have discussed this with in combination of my experiences with shooting, hunting and killing and dissecting deer and elk, my conclusion was that I wanted to have a bullet that had the best combination of penetration, expansion and ballistics. That led me to the 200 grain Hornady XTP. It has amongst the highest ballistic coefficient of any 10mm bullet, it is reasonably available, the comparative external ballistics looked better than the less weightier choices, and based on running some handloads through water jugs (country boy testing is the best I can do), this seems like it's going to be a very good choice for the desired application.

    Now if only powders were as easy to decide on. If you look at current reloading tables, you will find there's only about 100 powders you can use, and if you visit discussion forums, there is only about 1000 different guys on them and each one of them likes one of the different 100 powders - but in all honesty, I found that most of them settled on one of the more popular 7 powders that more often than not come to mind (in no order):

    Blue dot;
    Long shot;

    ...and of all the people who I had reviewed post on forums there is one person that stood out as one who had taken the velocity testing with 10mm further than anyone else - and surprisingly, his name is NOT McNett. (though the info he has posted is invaluable). What this particular person led on to is that 800x will go further with less pressure than any other common popular powder on the retail market - IF you're not afraid to push the limits of the cartridge (and this means beyond what the mfgr. listed as "max" loads). Obviously, an aftermarket barrel was necessary for this to prevent case head rupture - so I got one of those too.

    So, after playing around with blue dot and 155gr. bullets for "fun" and getting used to reloading this cartridge more than anything else, I decided to get serious and procure some 800x.

    I'll post more tomorrow when I have some time. Stay tuned - Interesting results from 8/28 & 8/29coming soon - with pics. :wavey:
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2010
  2. MalumProhibitum


    Jul 24, 2006
    Tomorrow has come and gone. We are going to have to hold you to your promises.
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2010

  3. Kegs

    Kegs Ol 8 fingers ;)

    Oct 26, 2009
    Cold side of conus
    Sorry - I got busy so I couldn't continue on with this. I hope someone is finding this entertaining - this should be an informative post for sure.

    So lets bring this quest up to speed.

    I've had my G29SF for about a year now. As soon as I made the decision to sell all the rest of my firearms and purchase this one, I wanted to purchase enough of an effective package so I could immediately shoot this gun and get used to it quickly. So here is what I bought initially:

    (1)G29SF (from a local FFL dealer who got me a way better price on it relative to retail).
    (2) Pearce grip extensions for G29 mags
    (2) G20 magazines
    (2) Extensions for the G20 mags to fit G29
    (1) Advantage arms .22LR conversion kit model 29/30 LE
    (1) extra mag for the AA conv. kit.
    (1) set of Dawson precision adjustable sights with a fiber optic equipped front post for the AA conversion kit
    (1) adjustable heavy duty Novak's adjustable tritium equipped rear night sight.
    (1) Ameriglo tritium filled .315" h. front night sight (to match the Novak's).
    (1) LWD 3.5# connector
    (1) G20 trigger bar (smooth trigger surface)
    (1) Botach tactical KZ tactical lanyard.
    (2) 50rd. boxes of Double tap 10mm 200 gr. controlled expansion ammo.
    (500) pcs. 10mm scharch brass.
    (2) boxes of 155gr. XTPs
    (1) 1lb. of Blue dot powder.
    (3) 100pcs. Remington Large pistol primers
    (NOTE: I already had a lot of .22LR ammo around to shoot for the kit).

    Reloading equipment (Note: I already had a RCBS rockchucker press, brass tumbler and some other reloading equipment, but at the time I was going on the road and wanted everything portable, so I purchased the following additional items):

    (1) Lee hand press (I love this press)
    (1) Lee 3-die set for .40sw/10mm
    (1) Lee powder measure kit
    ...and some other stuff that was unnecessary (like case trimming guides and shellholders - one came with the die set). :supergrin:

    The whole kit -except the powder - fit into a small tupperwear container about the size of a shoebox. I am very pleased with this setup.

    Later, I purchased a few boxes of 200gr. XTP bullets (they were not available for the longest time)

    More recently, as I better understood what happened to shell casings as they came out of my stock barrel, I purchased a KKM extended barrel (the extension offers more velocity and a 21# spring (which has seemed quite wimpy lately).

    ...and of course, since it is highly impractical to work up a decent high-power load if you don't know what the velocity of the load is, I purchased a chronograph. The model I purchased was based on reviews, price and other information. Let's just say, this unit is accurate enough for me.

    Earlier last week I also purchased a T.R. Graham MGBL (Match grade barrel lock) - this gizmo is a precision replacement part for a sloppily produced stock glock part that is associated with locking part of the barrel in place while it is in battery. It is (I think) a very great idea at the very least, based on comparing the design of the two parts.

    Today, I made a couple of other purchases: A set of 23# springs, and a Ghost rocket 3.5# connector (hoping that this one makes the trigger feel even better than the LWD connector - based on reports). The loads I am running through this pistol are absolutely beyond the 21# springs. I don't plan on running wimpy loads through this pistol (after all, I didn't order the .40 short and weak version did I?).

    So, here's a few pictures of my setup on my shooting range:

    All benches, etc. are home made projects I built with scrap lumber:

    A close up view of the pistol (in .22lr format during this pic).

    A pic downrange:

    ...and a pic showing the 2/6 double tap rounds I ran through the chrono, plus the journal (with .22 remington golden bullet bulk round data I had just taken - so you have an idea of how I am keeping track of all this):
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2010
  4. Kegs

    Kegs Ol 8 fingers ;)

    Oct 26, 2009
    Cold side of conus
    So on 8/28 and 8/29, I tested the velocity on some ammo. This is the first time I have ever owned or used a chronometer, so I read the directions and it seemed simple enough - I wanted to run the .22LR through it first to see how it read. This was a piece of cake, since the chrono already handles the stats and remembers all the velocities for you. This is a fun piece of equipment.

    I first shot (2) mags of remington golden bullet ammo through the advantage arms 29/30 LE kit - this is Advantage arm's #1 recommended rimfire round for their kit - which is designed as a plinker by default - and not a target pistol (though it's not too bad in this respect). The ammo however, leaves something to be desired:

    Conditions: 85F, RH? (probably around 40%), 1400 feet asl, quite sunny (hence the errors)

    Shot1 809
    Shot2 878
    Shot3 800
    Shot4 871
    Shot5 920
    Shot6 913
    Shot7 905
    Shot8 908
    Shot9 957
    Shot10 771

    Hi: 957 Lo: 771 Average: 873 Extreme spread: 186 Standard deviation: 60

    Okay, that was fun: How about doing it again:

    Shot1 916
    Shot2 803
    Shot3 968
    Shot4 905
    Shot5 885
    Shot6 812
    Shot7 983
    Shot8 911
    Shot9 no reading
    Shot10 no reading

    Hi: 983 Lo: 803 Average: 897 Extreme spread: 180 Standard deviation: 64

    Wow, that ammo sucks! :rofl:(but at least it feeds and fires, right?) :supergrin:

    So for my second trial, I thought I would try double tap, since I consistently read on this forum (and others) that the ammo does not meet up with published figures on the box. G20 length barrel velocity the box these rounds came in suggested 1250 fps. Interesting. I decided to spare 6 rounds of the very few I have left to try:

    Shot1 No reading
    Shot2 No reading
    Shot3 1175
    Shot4 1163
    Shot5 no reading
    Shot6 1195

    Average: 1177 Extreme spread 32 Standard deviation: 16 (keep in mind that the small sample on this one hardly makes the stats significant).

    1177...Wow, well there is a 4.45" barrel here on my G29. A G20 measures 4.6", that's not a lot of difference for the extra 73 fps to be made up. Of course I am 15' away from the barrel - could we have lost 50 fps in 5 yards? Hmmm...Well, like I stated before, a small sample is hardly conclusive, but it presents a window that suggests to me that the rounds are loaded fairly stout, but we'll just call the box reading "optimistic". :cool:

    Some suggestions have been made that a heavier spring could make a difference as to the velocity, well - believe me folks, that is a test that is high on the list. I still have a few double tap rounds left, and maybe we'll use the last of the batch to give a test on that idea soon.
  5. Kegs

    Kegs Ol 8 fingers ;)

    Oct 26, 2009
    Cold side of conus
    Now for the test of my handloads:


    Conditions: see post above.

    Case: Scharch (top brass) new, but run through Lee forming die first.
    Primer: CCI350 (yeah, the magnum one)
    Powder: 800X
    Bullet: 200 grain Hornady XTP
    Crimp: light/medium taper using standard lee seating/feed die.
    C.O.A.L.: 1.26"


    Start charge:7.4 grains

    Shot1 1040
    Shot2 1093
    Shot3 1028
    Shot4 1104
    Shot5 1054
    Shot6 1101
    Shot7 1127
    Shot8 no reading
    Shot9 no reading
    Shot10 no reading
    (note: I think failure to read had something to do with the sun/heat/reflection possibly)

    hi 1127 lo 1028 average 1077 ES: 99 SD: 34

    7.6 grains:

    Shot1 No reading
    Shot2 1073
    Shot3 1128
    Shot4 1093
    Shot5 1099
    Shot6 1075
    Shot7 1092
    Shot8 1089
    Shot9 1089
    Shot10 1092

    hi: 1128 lo: 1073 Avg: 1092 es: 55 sd: 15

    7.8 grains (manufacturer's published maximum load)

    Shot1 1119
    Shot2 1101
    Shot3 1115
    Shot4 1125
    Shot5 1092
    Shot6 1141
    Shot7 1093
    Shot8 1143
    Shot9 1097
    Shot10 1135

    hi:1143 lo: 1092 avg: 1116 es: 51 sd: 19
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2010
  6. Kegs

    Kegs Ol 8 fingers ;)

    Oct 26, 2009
    Cold side of conus

    Conditions same as above, components same as above.

    Charge: 8.0 grains

    Shot1 1122
    Shot2 1092
    Shot3 1112
    Shot4 1084
    Shot5 1125
    Shot6 1123
    Shot7 1185
    Shot8 1110
    Shot9 1112
    Shot10 1147

    hi 1185 lo 1084 avg. 1121 es 101 sd 28

    charge: 8.2 grains

    Shot1 1140
    Shot2 1130
    Shot3 1158
    Shot4 1129
    Shot5 1092
    Shot6 1149
    Shot7 1131
    Shot8 1125
    Shot9 1139
    Shot10 1129

    hi 1158 lo 1092 avg. 1132 es 66 sd 17

    At this point on 8/28/10 I stopped because the sun was starting to go down and mosquitoes were starting to come out. :patriot:

    8/29's figures coming soon.
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2010
  7. Two Guns

    Two Guns VIP MEMBER

    Nov 4, 2004
    Kegs thanks for your posting and all the work you have done with your Glock 29 SF.
  8. hypnagogue


    Nov 11, 2009
    With all due respect, with the lighter slide you will have higher slide velocity which will reduce working pressures. This will have an effect on performance of slower powders. Furthermore, your barrel uses different steel and rifling geometry. Mike tests his loads with a stock barrel and a heavy spring -- thus your setup isn't directly comparable even if they are similar barrel lengths. It is "similar".

    Not withstanding this disclaimer, the difference in slide velocity, barrel steel, rifling type, etc, will probably not be enough to match the box-top claims, (in my opinion, until proven otherwise, your mileage may vary). I would love to be proven wrong -- I am also a Colorado elk hunter, and I'd rather carry the G20 than my revolver for finishing shots.

    (BTW: at 8000 feet, 200gr XTP at 1180fps is 551fpe @ 50y.)
  9. crockett


    Mar 26, 2010
    Thanks so much for your thread and all the good info. It’s fun to read and boy now I really want to roll my own rounds! Wish I could have your setup and everything right away. Is that your back yard in the pics? Would be fun to have a buddy in my area for all that testing and getting stuff together..

    Keep the great work goin..
  10. Kegs

    Kegs Ol 8 fingers ;)

    Oct 26, 2009
    Cold side of conus
    Points taken. I wish I could have a G20 here to test it (and compare to the current system), but this is as close as I can come. That sloppy chamber andy poly rifling has got to make a difference in the MV, though I am still unconvinced it would be a positive one.

    I know it barely scrapes by the specs, but I wanted just a little more power than that. Thankfully, D.T. ammo is moot as you see my further results...
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2010
  11. Kegs

    Kegs Ol 8 fingers ;)

    Oct 26, 2009
    Cold side of conus

    8/29's data:Conditions: Sunny, hot, windy, 88F, around 50% RH.

    Components: same as 8/28


    Shot1 1151
    Shot2 1121
    Shot3 1156
    Shot4 1142
    Shot5 1164
    Shot6 1138
    Shot7 1110
    Shot8 1122
    Shot9 1144
    Shot10 1195

    hi 1195 lo 1121 average: 1150 es=74 SD=22

    8.6 & 8.8 grain strings:

    errors (due to heat/ direct sunlight on unit)? 8.6gr. started reading triple digit numbers, then 8.8 gr. started reading in the 1400 ranges with too many repeats - Sounds great, but I knew this wasn't right.

    I estimate that the avg. of 8.6gr ~1175 fps and that 8.8gr ~1200 fps

    -covered unit from sun using cardboard as suggested in chrono manual (except directly above light gates) and came back after lunch about 2 hours, and re-tested the .22 ammo to test for consistency.

    .22 Rem. golden bullet:

    Shot1 960
    Shot2 823
    Shot3 819
    Shot4 925
    Shot5 920
    Shot6 858
    Shot7 804
    Shot8 916
    Shot9 no reading
    Shot10 812

    hi 960 lo 804 average: 811 es: 156 SD=56

    This seems to be acceptably consistent with the prior's day measurements - so on we go...

    9.0 grains

    Shot1 1214
    Shot2 1233
    Shot3 1224
    Shot4 1208
    Shot5 1227
    Shot6 1212
    Shot7 1244
    Shot8 1218
    Shot9 no reading
    Shot10 no reading

    hi 1244 lo 1208 average: 1222 es=36 S.D.=12

    9.2 grains

    Shot1 1204
    Shot2 1247
    Shot3 1246
    Shot4 1223
    Shot5 1278
    Shot6 1223
    Shot7 1234
    Shot8 1207
    Shot9 1209
    Shot10 1219

    hi 1278 lo 1204 avg: 1229 es 74 SD=22

    9.4 grains

    Shot1 no reading
    Shot2 1241
    Shot3 1273
    Shot4 1256
    Shot5 1244
    Shot6 1244
    Shot7 1246
    Shot8 1265
    Shot9 1240
    Shot10 1244

    hi 1273 lo 1240 avg: 1250 es 33 sd 11

    *Note: this load had the highest precision of all loads tested on the target*

    9.6 grains

    Shot1 1261
    Shot2 1224
    Shot3 1261
    Shot4 1257
    Shot5 1275
    Shot6 1255
    Shot7 1272
    Shot8 1307
    Shot9 1263
    Shot10 1239

    hi 1307 lo 1224 average 1261 es 83 s.d. 21

    9.8 gr.

    Shot1 (1278 - if I recall correctly)
    Shot2 went right through the top of the plastic case of the chornograph ripping the bullet in (my estimation) 1/4 and putting a nice scrape/hole in the top of the case about 8"-12" long so that 1/4 of the lead AND JACKET(this is an XTP we're talking about - tough jackets!) was sitting in the bottom of the chronograph and 3/4 of it went downrange.

    Parts of the bullet hit and or moved some critical components (including splitting the power wire from the battery box) on its way through, which rendered the chronograph from reading further.

    As I mentioned earlier, I am a "green" chronograph user. I built the chronograph table before putting the chronograph on it and looking through the area in between the bars/light screens at the target.

    After the table was all set, and the chronograph was placed up there, I looked through it and found that my sights placed my bullet only about 4" above the case of the chronograph. I knew this was a little close, but really didn't think I was going to hit it. The first day I put a backpack up on the pistol rest to "raise up" my hold a little...I didn't think that helped much, so the second day I left it off and shot on the foam pad I have there. Experience shapes wisdom - Next time I will have it set up so the bullet goes higher above the unit, so if I hit anything, its going to be a sun screen. (cheaper to replace)

    I did not take any pictures, due to the embarrassment. I somewhat regret not taking pictures of this now. :dunno: Oh well. live and learn.

    I contacted the chrono mfgr. for a schematic and parts, but they didn't offer one - they suggested sending it in for repair instead - which they said was cheaper than replacing it, so that's what I did. I expect $30-50 worth of damages based on judging the parts that got nailed, but hopefully the jarring from getting thrown off the table by the bullet didn't kill parts I didn't see damage to...

    I have also ordered a set of 23# springs from wolff. I expect all this will be in around 2 weeks time for more testing.

    I have loaded the 800x charges up to 10 grains (I was almost there), which I will test once I get back set up. I'm not going above 10 grains - I believe 10 grains is beyond SAAMI pressure specs.

    I did not see any signs of overpressure during the entire test, but recoil started overriding the 21# spring to the point of a few bouts of ejection failure around 9.4 grains.

    Before I get back set up I think I am going to load some more 9.4 grain charges to do some milk jug testing on. I am interested to see the penetration factor on these and also whether or not the jacket stays on through the thin plastic & water at this speed - would further like to see how far the bullet is peeled back. I am going to weigh and sort the brass this time - and eye the scale as carefully as I can this next time to get as precise of a load as I can and see how tight I can get these.

    If testing works out well, this may become my new pet load. :supergrin:
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2010
  12. Kegs

    Kegs Ol 8 fingers ;)

    Oct 26, 2009
    Cold side of conus
    I wish I had a friend who shot 10mm in the area too - especially one that had a G20... :supergrin: My uncle has a G20, but he (ironically) lives in the Orlando area - and mostly goes to his cabin in TN to shoot.

    This isn't really my back yard, but the back of my acreage, about 350 yards from my yard separated by a big hill (so it's not so loud for the missus) :cool:
  13. Kegs

    Kegs Ol 8 fingers ;)

    Oct 26, 2009
    Cold side of conus
    Ok, so what is 200 grains, can travel clear through 4 milk jugs filled up with water, putting enough of a dent in the 5th milk jug to cause a slight crack or at least a dent, measures 0.65" average diameter and has 98% weight retention?

    Why a 200 grain XTP bullet shot out of a hand cannon at 1250 fps average velocity, that's what! :supergrin:

    I loaded 50 more of the 9.4 grain x 800x up today and shot 10 rounds of them - first to sight in my pistol, which is set perfect now, and second to do some penetration & expansion testing...

    Oh, the 200 gr. XTP performed admirably at this velocity. I fired 2 of them through a line of 5 milk jugs today and couldn't find the first one, though noted it had gone through the 4th milk jug - just like the second test and on the second test I found the bullet.

    It completely exploded the first milk jug and devastated the second, then left a small remnant of lead in the 3rd milk jug (actually this occurred on the first trial too) and completely penetrated #4 so that it put a nice dent on jug #5, but just not quite enough to penetrate #5.

    I've done some various penetration testing using this cheap format and so far I had only been able to penetrate the 3rd milk jug - with the double tap rounds and the 155gr. blue dot hotties I loaded up earlier on.

    With the double taps (montana gold bullets), the jacket just came off in the second jug and left a skinny piece of hard lead in the third. The expansion was ok, but nothing to write home about and the penetration was about the same as my 155gr. B.D. bullets (just over max published velocities - and hard on the extractor - I felt those were hot).

    This pet load of mine is in a new class. It's in the full load class, bordering nuke. I am very happy with the results and this will be my new do-it-all round for the pistol. I have no doubt this puppy will break bone and penetrate deeply or through and through an elk if I happen to miss bone.

    The jacket never shed even with that kind of velocity. :thumbsup:

    I suppose I could place a piece of 3/4" plywood in between the 1st and 2nd jugs to simulate bone, but I still think it would rip through the third milk jug and that's plenty of energy for any job I plan on doing with it.

    Here's a few pics of the retrieved bullet:

    Bullet and fragments weighed 198 grains after retrieval:

    Bullet measured 0.65" average diameter (estimated conservatively):

    Bullet still had a decent stem left with jacket intact:

    I shot this round for adjustment of my sights earlier tonight and this load has very tight precision. I think it's a keeper for me. I'm still going to re-test it when I get my chono back + I will compare the results using the new 23# springs as well!

    The recoil is definitely peppy at this velocity using the little G29 - but I like it! I am looking forward to loading up a bunch of these and practicing diligently out to 100y or so to get solid with it.


    Until next time!
  14. crockett


    Mar 26, 2010
    I think I have to follow your route.. talking about pimping up my G29SF and finding my favorite handload. You really got me hooked.. :exercise:

    So far I haven’t done a lot to my handgun: just Meprolight fixed night sights, extended slide lock and pierce grip extension for the mags.

    I thought about a .40 LW conversion barrel but I guess I’m gonna skip that :whistling: You bought a KKM barrel. Why not a LW? And why did you choose a 4.45 barrel over a G20 in the first place?

    As soon as I made the barrel decision I want to get a chronograph. Just for getting a first idea what to expect from factory ammo. What chronograph did you get?

    After that I will get my handload equipment.. which will need some more research on my side.

    Thanks again for your tests and the posts. I appreciate it.
  15. Maine1


    Jul 20, 2007
    OK, i am enviuos of those velocities with the 200 gr XTP!

    your data listed 7.8 gr as max, if i read correctly, and your load is 9.6 gr, right?

    with a magnum primer, as well. Is there any primer flow, case head expansion, ect? I am curious as i'd like a similar load for my g-20, but i am hesitant to exceed the posted loads by much. My experience with 800X leads me to believe it would be less risky to do so then with, say blue dot or AA#9.

    we all shoot a chrony now and then..and the 200 gr XTP's are great chrony medicine, usually a 1 shot stop.....BTDT. :)

    I put up 375 rounds of 180 gr 10mm tonight...i have 2 boxes of 200 grainers looking for a good load.
  16. Kegs

    Kegs Ol 8 fingers ;)

    Oct 26, 2009
    Cold side of conus
    KKM had extended barrels (without compensators) in stock - LW did not. The way I figure it, if you're going to get an aftermarket barrel for a pistol, you might as well get one that maximizes velocity - and the 4.45 barrel did the trick + it doesn't protude further than my rail light, which is a good thing.

    I think you are asking why didn't I just go with a G20 over a G29? Additional ability to conceal. The G29 (because of the smaller mags/grips) can be concealed much more easily than the G20 - you can still run G20 mags through the G29, but you cannot due the reverse, therefore in my opinion, the G29 has more modularity than the G20. If you want additional velocity, just order the extended barrel: viola; compact do-it-all pistol.

    I went with a competition electronics pro chrono digital. They are on sale at midway right now for under $100. The reason I went with this one is based on a referral from someone - then I looked at the reviews from Midway - so many outstanding reviews.

    You are welcome - by the way handloading this cartridge is a breeze - I mean it does take time (particularly if you hand weigh each powder charge as I do), but it's worth it in my opinion. The reloading equipment that you need to purchase to start reloading is very affordable - more so than people think at first. The key is to NOT buy the reloading "kits". Just buy what you need to buy to make the hand loads.
  17. cwb


    May 24, 2010
    I've gotten up to 1300 fps with #9 over a 200 gr XTP with some pressure signs showing. I have found no issues with consistency with #9 exceeding published loads. YMMV.

    I like the looks of that 9.6gr load of 800x, though.
  18. cwb


    May 24, 2010
    I have been using one of these for two years and they work great. I have shot mine twice but both times in the metal upright pieces which I simply picked up at a local steel yard for pennies. Nice work!. You are now an official chrono user. :supergrin:
  19. Kegs

    Kegs Ol 8 fingers ;)

    Oct 26, 2009
    Cold side of conus
    No. It is 9.4 gr., not 9.6. As stated earlier, DON'T TRY THIS. EVEN AT YOUR OWN RISK.

    First of all, the magnum primer has a stouter cup than the large pistol primers, so it's gonna take a more pressure to flatten it - and the answer is, there is no discernible difference between this load and much lower powder charges shot in my pistol - so, no. The tighter tolerance in the chamber of the KKM barrel does not really allow for much case head expansion at all. I don't know how much pressure it would take to start showing pressure signs in this barrel, but I do not think I am even close with this charge. However, that does not mean it is "safe" or within pressure limits. IF you consider that the 7.8 grain load is 32,500 psi, and the 10 grain load is at 38,500 psi, that the current SAAMI pressure max is at 37,500 psi - IF (and this is an assumption that may not be correct) the pressure has a linear curve - the 9.4 grain charge is probably very close to 37,000 psi, which is very close to the SAAMI max pressure for which the cartridge is capable of. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER EVER TRY TO USE THIS LOAD IN A STOCK GLOCK BARREL. It would be a dangerous mistake.

    Another thing I will add is that there is a reason that IMR put a max of 7.8 grains of powder on their sheets, and it involves human error. If you make a small error at 7.8, it may not ruin your gun - obviously there is not much room for error as you go higher though.

    I haven't tried AA#9, but I would not consider working blue dot much higher than the listed maxes. That stuff is hard on my extractor - it really leaves marks on the case rims. Even when getting close to the listed max with 155 xtps. I do not have anywhere near those problems with the 800x - but these loads with the 21# spring I have in there now really THROWS the brass - easily in the neighborhood of 15'-20'...and that's how I know the spring is overrun. It should throw the rounds less than 10' if sprung properly.

    :rofl: Yeah, I'll tell you I had a sick feeling when saw it fly off the table, since I had only had it two days - but I did get a number of rounds through it before I skinned it. That plastic is tough! It takes a lot to rip the jacket off an XTP - and that was enough...anyway, I expect to have it back before too long and continue on.

    You MUST work them up - choose a start velocity that you are comfortable with on the mfgrs. listed powder charges and work them up in 0.2gr. increments to a point you feel comfortable with. All pistols, measurement devices and reloading components are going vary - what works in my system may not work in yours, so working up loads slowly is the only way to do it.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2010
  20. cwb


    May 24, 2010
    In your post above you said you were up to 9.8 when you shot your chrono and that 9.6 was the most accurate. :dunno: