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Just the sound of a pump shotgun...

Discussion in 'Tactical Shotguns' started by Todd Hogue, Dec 24, 2010.

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  1. cdog533

    cdog533 Zombie Killer

    715
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    Oct 11, 2001
    This racking thing is dumb.

    By racking a shotgun LOUDLY, you are giving up lots of info and giving the tango a giant tactical advantage.
    - He knows you are armed
    - He knows your position
    - He knows you have a pump shotgun

    It's like cocking a hammer on your revolver to show you mean business. It's crappy tactics and bad gun handling.

    You ideally don't want him to know those things. If you are producing a shotgun in hopes of deterrence, then pointing the gun should work wonders without the pump sound. Following that, for maximum deterrence (facing a threat) fire it into his chest. He should break off his aggression at that point.

    I was always taught that loud sounds don't do anything to scare people or even keep their heads down. It's well-aimed lead that does that. That means don't try to scare someone by outputting noise in their general direction...you need to actually hit them.

    I cringe thinking of some dude that takes the old gun shop commando advice of 'just pump yer slide and they'll run fer it!' and gets shot while stomping into his living room at 2AM and promptly working his action in the face of 3 gangbangers. Bad tactics. He should be in his bedroom, facing the door, with a round in the chamber, staying QUIET.

    The 'racking will scare them off' scattergun advice is usually followed by the 'heck you dont even need to aim it' advice.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2011
  2. aippi

    aippi

    1,726
    17
    Jun 12, 2009
    So all you Ninjas are just going to sneak out and shoot a dark shape because is it in your house. You must intend that as you don't want to rack or give your position away with a light. Why do you even use a shotgun. You should simply sneak out of bed, put your cammo on and cammo paint your face ( or is that clown paint) and get your sniper rifle and see if you can pick them off.

    And yes, at close quarters I don't use sights, I point fire. And if you are ever it this area of Michigan and have a few grand on you, stop by and we can throw it in a pot and have a little shooting match with the 12ga for speed and accuracy at close range. Leave your Ninja stuff at home as these boys up here will laugh you off the range.
     


  3. Glockdude1

    Glockdude1 Federal Member CLM

    24,303
    2,688
    May 24, 2000
    Beaumont,Texas
  4. Bill G

    Bill G

    43
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    Feb 10, 2008

    Give them Hell J.D. ... There is a lot of good and miss information on these forums. I just sit back and take it all in He He!!!

    Take Care Friend,:supergrin:
    Bill G
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2011
  5. MacG22

    MacG22 CLM

    8,809
    20
    Feb 28, 2008
    Aippi,

    While I generally agree with you on most things, not this (at least in how presented).

    Surely you can see that there are two very well developed schools of training on this, both taught by very reputable and good sources, who suggest both schools.

    Trying to us "mall ninja" and inadvertently shooting dark forms without IDing is not what anyone has advocated. And further, it's just an attempt to shame people into seeing things "your way".

    I have already stated that I don't see any fear to racking (posturing) if a warning was going to be issued anyway. However, there are many situations where I may not want my position to be known beforehand. Where the element of surprise is what will allow me to defend my home and family and make it out alive (as just one example, where there are multiple targets who, through listening, you have already identified to be hostile).

    Surely you can see it both ways and can allow logic and information to make your point without trying to use shame and accusations.
     
  6. Never Nervous

    Never Nervous

    2,778
    67
    Aug 18, 2009
    Metro ATL
    If I am awakened in the middle of the night by someone in my home, I don't give a rats pa-tuty why they are there. I will not be doing any soul searching about how I will feel about it later. The intruders will not be invited to come in and read the 23rd Psalms. But that's just me.

    NN
     
  7. WhiskeyUnicorn

    WhiskeyUnicorn Mall Ninja Extraordinaire

    418
    3
    Nov 13, 2010
    Savannah, GA
    I work at a gun store part time and have heard that as a selling point a bunch. "Just rack the slide and they'll piss themselves." Albeit, the sound of the slide strikes fear into some, I wouldn't use that as my main deterrent. Thats like feigning death when being attacked by a shark...
     
  8. Tango??:rofl:
    Which can be a good thing. Would you stick around a house knowing someone who is armed is there waiting to shoot you?
    If yo have gotten up and gone out looking for the BG, he probably knows where you are already.
    Again, how is this a bad thing?

    I'd suggest keeping a shotgun that is probably not drop safe fully loaded is much worse than using the same tactics and gunhandling successfully used by LE for decades.

    Folks keep saying that, but nobody seems able to provide a good argument for it.

    So rather than trying to get him to leave the house without trouble you think it is good tactics to confront him? Strange.

    You were taught wrong. loiud sounds regualrly scare people and cause folks to keep their heads down.

    Agreed, but I don't see anyone here who is suggesting those tactics.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2011
  9. jdavionic

    jdavionic NRA Member

    15,009
    2,793
    May 1, 2008
    The whole sound issue aside, I think there is merit to storing your shotgun with an empty chamber. The rational that I've read deals more with the design of many shotguns.

    While it's from 2004, I think this article by Massad Ayoob is a good read on the subject of shotguns. You will see a discussion on the subject of keeping it unchambered. I think there is enough merit to this part to make the other discussions on the subject moot, IMHO.
    http://www.sigma9.info/sigma9-documents/Prime-Computer_docs/Ayoob%20firearms/The%20pump%20shotgun%97a%20backwoods%20home%20classic.pdf
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2011
  10. Aceman

    Aceman

    6,988
    61
    Nov 30, 2008
    Tampa
    The message I'm hearing: You are in my house and I'm shooting you, even in the back if you are on your way out the door because Tango's[:rofl:] can be shot just because I feel like it.

    Clearly people who haven't done it and never had to explain it to the judge...Not saying I have. And I never want to.

    And I welcome you to come to my house at night, with a Glock and we'll play this little game: I'll rack my Mossberg, and yell "ready or not here I come"

    And we'll see if you can shoot me first. I don't think you'll do so well. Either you will get shot by me, or the police will show up. Not saying it won't turn out the other way. But I really don't think you have nearly the advantage you think you do...
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2011
  11. Nalapombu

    Nalapombu Millennium Member

    2,996
    173
    Oct 21, 1999
    Spring, TEXAS....USA
    I would be willing to wager a LARGE sum of cash that there hasn't been a burglar in the history of burgling that has EVER thought this upon his hearing a shotgun being racked after he's broken into a home.

    The goal is to protect yourself and family WITHOUT having to shoot someone. You ever pull the trigger on someone breaking into your house in the middle of the night and you'll probably be filing for bankruptcy not long after that. I'll take my chances with racking my shotgun and letting whomever is in my house hear it and know exactly where I am and what they are going to be dealing with if they choose to proceed.

    Nalajr
     


  12. You won't be able to rack the shotgun any way.........you'll have your thumb stuck in the magazine!!!!:rofl::rofl::whistling:
     
  13. MacG22

    MacG22 CLM

    8,809
    20
    Feb 28, 2008
    :embarassed:
     



  14. Sorry, but from your other post.............I just had to!!!!!:rofl::rofl::wavey:
     
  15. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

    11,682
    1
    Jun 12, 2002
    North Carolina
    You need to get out more and meet a different class of people. Cops are armed, visibly armed, and people attack them all the time. There are lots of animals out there who will defy the challenge of a gun pointed at them, racked, etc. I've met them personally. I've had them run at me and run away from me.

    FWIW, anyone breaking into an occupied home is already defying the owners attempts to warn him off. They are breaking into an occupied home because they WANT you in there and don't care if you are armed or not. Announcing yourself just tosses away your chief advantage and also shows him you're too much of a meow to shoot him.

    If someone is in your house, kill them. It's as simple as that. If you don't think you have the stomach for it, then you need to work on getting it. It's all part of the survival mindset. That is what makes 80 year old women armed with an H&R 22 revolver win gunfights.
     
  16. WhiskeyUnicorn

    WhiskeyUnicorn Mall Ninja Extraordinaire

    418
    3
    Nov 13, 2010
    Savannah, GA
    Its not as simple as someone in your house, you shoot him. What if an elderly confused man stumbled into your home and thought it was his own, assuming your door was unlocked? Would you want me to blast your grandpa because he mistaked my house for his? Life isn't simple and neither are laws, courts, and pound you in the ass prisons. As much **** as people get away with in court these days, I'd be wary of blasting away at a bump in the night...just sayin. There are two many scenarios to even talk about on this forum...to each their own. You want to shoot first and be questioned later, do it. If Mr. White would like to rack his shotgun and scare the bad guy away...cool. You can't say what you will, only what you have done. You can't make someone stomach killing another human being either... Every time and scenario will be different for everyone...

    Sorry for off-topic
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2011
  17. Sorry, but that is simply not true. Most BGs care very much if you are armed or not. They are breaking in for a reason. "I want to get into a gunfight" isn't one of those reasons.
    Don't know where folks get ideas like this, but pretty much all the evidence says that is wrong.
    Again, don't know where folks get ideas like this. Killing someone is almost never simple, it starts a rather complicated and expensive process that most folks want to avoid.
     
  18. aippi

    aippi

    1,726
    17
    Jun 12, 2009
    Yes, I will rack my 870 and call out that I am armed and to get out of my house.

    Normally this topic leaves me with a rather sick feeling due to all the "kill 'em all" mind sets. I have to say that this go around has brought out some very resonable sounding people. However, My main fear is the anti gun lobby will feed off the Killer Clowns and hold them up as the average gun owner in their attempts to take our rights away. I will defend with my life every one of you having the right to own firearms but after reading some of your comments I realize I would be dying for a small percentage of fools also.

    You have to just about get the NRA magazine to even hear about an armed citizen defending their life. Let one of you killer clowns blow away some kid sneaking out of your daughters bedroom and that will be headlines for days on every talk show and newspaper. what, can't happen. I had teenage daughters and it did and the only one more scared then that boy was me when I realized who he was and what could have happened. You illresponsible people shame me as I am a responsible gun owner and your cavilier attitude about taking life proves you have either never been put in that situation or you have a chip missing somewhere.
     
  19. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

    11,682
    1
    Jun 12, 2002
    North Carolina
    How many burglars have you caught and interviewed? Trust me, I've caught them, interviewed them, taken statements from them and sent them to prison. Anybody that breaks into an occupied residence is looking for more than a flat screen.

    Burglars that don;t want a confrontation go to great trouble to avoid occupied homes. Occasionally when they walk in on someone by accident, they flee. When someone breaks into your home at 2300, they want you to be there.

    Killing a burglar is VERY simple. The "castle doctrine" has been around since before the Mayflower. Read your state's criminal code regarding "justification" so you can know what you're talking about instead of hearing gun shop and internet blather about what you need to do. Check out the local library and get back to us on that. This isn't Great Britain (yet).
     
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