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Just some NEWBE ?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by rpgman, Oct 6, 2011.

  1. rpgman

    rpgman SCGLOCK

    1,158
    0
    Jul 27, 2011
    Florence
    Since I did my starting reloading I have notice something.

    I have the 49th edition of Lyman's Loading Manal and this it what I noticed.

    For .40 165gr using Bullseye and Unique it states:

    Bullesys - Start = 4.8 and Max load = 5.4
    Unique - Start = 5.4 and Max load = 6.0

    So, I go to Alliant Powder's website and it states for the same .40 165gr:

    Bullesys - 5.8gr
    Unique - 7.2gr

    Alliant's recipe’s are above the max that are stated in Lyman's?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    Why?
    <o:p></o:p>
    Thanks,
    Greg
     
  2. Some manuals are more conservative than others. Really want an eye opener? Find a 20+ year old manual and compare some of those loads.

    That is why you start low and work your way up if your are trying to load near max. You gotta know your pressure signs.
     


  3. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

    14,949
    173
    Nov 2, 2006
    CO
    One reason I don't like about Unique is that the Data is all over the place. I got in trouble for saying that a while back. Jack owes me a apology now but I am SURE I won't get one. ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2011
  4. rpgman

    rpgman SCGLOCK

    1,158
    0
    Jul 27, 2011
    Florence
    yea, I noticed that also, but the Bullseye was off too in my example above, but not as much as Unique.

    I'm seeing it also in 9mm
     
  5. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

    14,949
    173
    Nov 2, 2006
    CO
    Both are really old powders so they have a lot of OLD data and more opportunity for this to happen. Both are Alliant products and have a horrible manufactures websites. It's easy to work up a load with a Chrono but it can be confusing if you don't have a history with the powder.
     
  6. I'm beginning to think you have a secret fetish for Unique. Just come out of the closet already. It's ok.
     
  7. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

    14,949
    173
    Nov 2, 2006
    CO
    My issue with Unique is

    1) It doesn't meter well. It's fine if you don't jam the press and cause the powder to pack into the open cavity. So you just need to be aware.
    2) All these newbies get told by people using it for 20 years it's a great powder. So they buy it. Then they get confused by the data like the OP.

    I can see why people like it. You Unique guys need to be willing to step up and help this guy figure out what data to believe.
     
  8. rpgman

    rpgman SCGLOCK

    1,158
    0
    Jul 27, 2011
    Florence
    yep, I was told that Unique is a decent powder and can be used in many different kinds of rounds. So, I purchased it without further researching it.

    MY bad, I guess
    Greg
     
  9. I believe you bought a good powder. I don't load 40 so I am sorry I can't help here.
     
  10. rpgman

    rpgman SCGLOCK

    1,158
    0
    Jul 27, 2011
    Florence
    well I'm gonna use it for 9mm also.
    But, the 9mm didn't vary as much.

    Layman's 49th:

    9mm 147gr usimng Unique = 3.7 to 4.5

    Alliant's Website:

    9mm 147gr usimng Unique = 4.3

    Alliant didn't have a ,measure for Bullseye on the 147gr.
     
  11. fredj338

    fredj338

    21,941
    1,051
    Dec 22, 2004
    so.cal.
    Much of the variation comes from how the testing is done. Lyman uses Univ fixed receiver, Speer actual guns, etc. SO test platforms are going to vary as well as bullets & cases, it all matters. It's why I recommend at least 3 viable sources for a new powder. Average the data, start in the middle & work your loads up @ 0.1gr at a time for powders HS6 & faster. Slower powders can have you workup in 0.2gr increments. Reloading manuals are a guide not bibles.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2011
  12. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

    14,949
    173
    Nov 2, 2006
    CO
    Reloading Data is useless with out OAL and Bullet type. Post those up. Some of the difference may be in the details.
     
  13. rpgman

    rpgman SCGLOCK

    1,158
    0
    Jul 27, 2011
    Florence

    I purchaaed these at the nearest Bass Pro Shop while I wait on the Precision Delta's. I only got 100 of them and they had nothing in stock in .40 except these.

    For the .40 they are:

    Hornady® XTP™ Pistol Bullets
    165GR

    OAL in Lyman is Speer TMJ 1.120 OAL

    OAL on Alliant's is Speer GDP 1.12 OAL
     
  14. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

    14,949
    173
    Nov 2, 2006
    CO
    So part of the issue is Alliant seems to always use GDHP. They seem to require some different data. I would start with the lower data and work it up. You will know if you have a sub starting load. Gun simply will not run. Starting load will feel soft and barely run the gun most the time. If your using a common pistol (not some finicky compact).
     
  15. ColoCG

    ColoCG

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    Mar 18, 2011
    Colorado
    I also believe you bought a good powder and one of the most versatile powders there is. I've loaded it from .380acp to medium .454casull, and most in between and it has performed well.

    I normally load a 165gr. FP Berry's with 6.5gr Unique in the .40s&w and have gone up to 7gr. with no problem at col of 1.130".

    In the 9mm I have gone up to 4.2gr. Unique with a 147gr.RN Berry's at col. of 1.150" and 4.3gr. Unique with a 147gr. Speer GD at 1.130" with no problem in.
    I hope this helps some, be sure to start lower and work your load up slowly.
     
  16. ColoCG

    ColoCG

    936
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    Mar 18, 2011
    Colorado

    Hornady in their 2 most recent manuals have listed COL. of 1.125" for their .40 155gr. and 180gr. xtp's so I would guess the 165gr. would be in that range also. Try loading a dummy round in that range and check the cartridge in the barrel of your gun to make sure it fits. Use the longest col. that will fit in your gun and cycle reliably.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2011
  17. rpgman

    rpgman SCGLOCK

    1,158
    0
    Jul 27, 2011
    Florence
    Thanks, I appreciate it.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    Greg<o:p></o:p>
     
  18. rpgman

    rpgman SCGLOCK

    1,158
    0
    Jul 27, 2011
    Florence
    On the dummy round I made the other day, I had a COL of 1.124
    Greg
     
  19. ColoCG

    ColoCG

    936
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    Mar 18, 2011
    Colorado
    Your welcome, for some reason Lyman's manual can be very conservative on some loads.
    If that round works it sounds good. If it was me I would start at about 5.8grs. of Unique and work up slow. Don't load more that 10 rds. of each to try for funtionality. I've loaded the 6.5grs. that work fine in a G23 and a Kahr CW40.
     
  20. rpgman

    rpgman SCGLOCK

    1,158
    0
    Jul 27, 2011
    Florence
    these are for a G27