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Judaism, from polytheistic beginnings?

Discussion in 'Religious Issues' started by High-Gear, Aug 26, 2012.

  1. High-Gear

    High-Gear

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    Interesting video which explains a lot of the conflicting accounts in the bible.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZY2eeozdo8&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]Atheism - A History of God (The Polytheistic Origins of Christianity and Judaism) - YouTube[/ame]
     
  2. JBnTX

    JBnTX Bible Thumper

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    Pure garbage!...:puking:

    Why don't you atheists write your own history, instead of trying to rewrite the Bible?

    Why so much concern over something that you don't even believe in?

    What's it any of your concern if the Bible has contradictions, you don't believe a word of it anyway?

    ..
     

    Last edited: Aug 26, 2012

  3. Animal Mother

    Animal Mother Not Enough Gun

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    Archaeology supports a polytheistic origin for Judaism, arising out of the Babylonian pantheon. What evidence is there to the contrary?

    Wouldn't you rather know the truth?
     
  4. Arc Angel

    Arc Angel Deus Vult!

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    Penn's Woods
    :wavey: Hi! How are things in the loony bin this morning?

    Listen, biblical accounts are only, 'conflicting' when the Reader fails to understand what is being said. After, literally, an entire lifetime of studying the Bible (including 2 years in seminary) I've concluded that Judeo-Christian sacred scripture has been produced by far greater, infinitely more sophisticated minds than anything normally possessed by common intellect.

    People-in-general are good at solving, 'problems of the conscious mind'. However, because of the common emotional filters applied to ALL conscious reason by virtually all men, everywhere, ordinary men tend to do far less well with spiritual issues and reasoning than they are often able to demonstrate elsewhere.

    You are apparently one of these ordinary people; and, truthfully, you've come to the right place to vent your spiritual ignorance. :thumbsup:
     
  5. JBnTX

    JBnTX Bible Thumper

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    Fort Worth Texas

    Duh? :faint:

    That's been common knowledge for about 3000 years.
    Are you atheists just now finding out about it?

    Why do you think the first commandment is Thou shalt have no other gods before me?

    It put an end to the polytheism.
     
  6. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

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    You can see an evolution of religion in scripture. First you have Adam and Eve communing with God, who is referred to as "we" which implies God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit as derived in scripture later on. So there are Three that are one, which as been called the "Trinity".

    Then you see the fall after choosing Satan's lie in the Garden of Eden. From there you see a distinction after Cain and Abel of the Sons of God and found the daughters of men attractive and intermarried with them. So, you see two divisions: essentially the Adam and Eve's other children who followed in the way of Able finding those that followed after Cain's women attractive.

    That mixing of marriages caused so much evil in the world, we find the flood next.

    After the world is repopulated, after a brief revival, the same problem develops with everyone going their own way.

    Then Abraham is called from Ur which was a polytheistic society, to serve the original God Head. So, in essence we see the roots of Judaism sprining forth from a polytheistic idolatrous society. Once his descendants settled in Egypt after Joseph you see them being enslaved and being indoctrinated into the polytheistic society.

    Moses comes along and pulls them from that society, but it takes some effort to divest them of the Egyptian lifestyle and back to the original God Head.

    Once Israel is established you see them adopting other Gods and angering God. Punishments come as a result of a violation of their convenant. There is that constant back and forth throughout their history until you see the Babylonian captivity.

    So, finding archaelogical evidence of idolatry in ancient Israel is not really all that suprising.
     
  7. High-Gear

    High-Gear

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    I'm confused, is it pure garbage or spot on? Yes it eventually put an end to polytheism for the Jews, but isnt it a testament to the man made nature of god?

    God created man in his image, after man created god in his image. :supergrin:
     
  8. FCoulter

    FCoulter

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    This is prob one of the most bizarre statements you have made.

    Please I beg you to first show Biblical proof the "we" was adam ,eve and God?


    Then please provide proof that the pagan concept of the trinity is Biblical?


    Hint, the oneness of the God family is clearly explained by Jesus himself in John 17, and it is not trinitarian!
     
  9. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

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    Genesis 1:26, "Then God said, “Let us <sup class="crossreference" value='(BO)'></sup> make mankind <sup class="crossreference" value='(BP)'></sup> in our image, <sup class="crossreference" value='(BQ)'></sup> in our likeness, <sup class="crossreference" value='(BR)'></sup> so that they may rule <sup class="crossreference" value='(BS)'></sup> over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, <sup class="crossreference" value='(BT)'></sup> over the livestock and all the wild animals,<sup class="footnote" value='[a]'>[a]</sup> and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
     
  10. High-Gear

    High-Gear

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    Maybe "We" making in "Our" image was a reference to polytheism?
     
  11. FCoulter

    FCoulter

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    Wake up king a. God is speaking the us and our before adam and eve are created.

    WOW!
     
  12. Guss

    Guss

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    Probably. One of the words for God in the Bible was Elohim, which was plural. The religious apologists are perfectly capable of twisting themselves into a pretzel to deny or re-interpret that, though. That's the advantage of a book that needs interpreting by the "right" people.
     
  13. Guss

    Guss

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    The way I heard it from a former minister who learned it in a Christian divinity school, the Jews seemed to have believed in all the gods, but made a special contract with the god they thought to be the most powerful. Over time, they stopped even speaking the names of the other gods to show respect to their favorite. Eventually it morphed into monotheism.
     
  14. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

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    You are being rude, and missing the point entirely. The Us and and Our was God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit speaking as themselves.
     
  15. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

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    It is a reference to what we find in scripture, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. They are seperate, but coequal and in one accord. They are the God Head, which the term Trinity comes into play, though you won't find the term "Trinity" in the bible. However, you will find God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit all referenced.
     
  16. FCoulter

    FCoulter

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    Sorry I am calling you a liar. Show me one place in the Bible where the Holy Spirt is called or refered to God the Holy Spirit.

    If you cant then please say your sorry to the real God not the pagan ones you are in worship with.
     
  17. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

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    It is frustrating dealing with you and trying to be kind to you. I am trying to be kind to as you might possibly be a brother in Christ. But, the spirit in which you come is not from Christ. There is always a venom in your speach that is not of the Spirit. You wear out a man's patience.

    Now, I suppose I will waste my time bringing to your scripture only to receive such slander, but I will do the best that I am able. Consider this a kind rebuke.

    The Holy Spirit is no new concept:

    Psalms 51:11, "Do not cast me <sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup> from your presence <sup class="crossreference" value='(B)'></sup>
    or take your Holy Spirit <sup class="crossreference" value='(C)'></sup> from me."

    Isaiah 63:10, "Yet they rebelled <sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup>
    and grieved his Holy Spirit. <sup class="crossreference" value='(B)'></sup>
    So he turned and became their enemy <sup class="crossreference" value='(C)'></sup>
    and he himself fought <sup class="crossreference" value='(D)'></sup> against them."

    Isaiah 63:11, "Then his people recalled<sup class="footnote" value='[a]'>[a]</sup> the days of old,
    the days of Moses and his people—
    where is he who brought them through the sea, <sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup>
    with the shepherd of his flock? <sup class="crossreference" value='(B)'></sup>
    Where is he who set
    his Holy Spirit <sup class="crossreference" value='(C)'></sup> among them,"

    Matthew 1:18, "<sup> </sup>This is how the birth of Jesus the Messiah came about<sup class="footnote" value='[a]'>[a]</sup>: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit."

    Matthew 1:20, "But after he had considered this, an angel <sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup> of the Lord appeared to him in a dream <sup class="crossreference" value='(B)'></sup> and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit."

    Matthew 3:11, "I baptize you with<sup class="footnote" value='[a]'>[a]</sup> water for repentance. <sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup> But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with<sup class="footnote" value='[b]'>[b]</sup> the Holy Spirit <sup class="crossreference" value='(B)'></sup> and fire."

    Matthew 12:32, "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age <sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup> or in the age to come."

    Jeus makes it obvious and plain here:

    Matthew 28:19, "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, <sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup> baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"

    Mark 1:8, "I baptize you with<sup class="footnote" value='[a]'>[a]</sup> water, but he will baptize you with<sup class="footnote" value='[b]'>[b]</sup> the Holy Spirit.”

    Mark 3:29, "but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin

    Remember David in the Psalms who speaks of the Holy Spirit?

    Mark 12:36, "David himself, speaking by the Holy Spirit, <sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup> declared:
    “‘The Lord said to my Lord:
    “Sit at my right hand
    until I put your enemies
    under your feet.”’<sup class="footnote" value='[a]'>[a]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(B)'></sup>

    Mark 13:11, "Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit."

    Luke 1:15, "for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, <sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup> and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit <sup class="crossreference" value='(B)'></sup> even before he is born."

    Luke 1:35, "The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, <sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup> and the power of the Most High <sup class="crossreference" value='(B)'></sup> will overshadow you. So the holy one <sup class="crossreference" value='(C)'></sup> to be born will be called<sup class="footnote" value='[a]'>[a]</sup> the Son of God."

    Luke 1:41, "When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit."

    Luke 1:67, "His father Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit <sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup> and prophesied:"

    Luke 2:25, "Now there was a man in Jerusalem called Simeon, who was righteous and devout. <sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup> He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, <sup class="crossreference" value='(B)'></sup> and the Holy Spirit was on him."

    Luke 2:26, "It had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not die before he had seen the Lord’s Messiah."

    Luke 3:16, "John answered them all, “I baptize you with<sup class="footnote" value='[a]'>[a]</sup> water. <sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup> But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with<sup class="footnote" value='[b]'>[b]</sup> the Holy Spirit and fire."

    Here they are again in concert with one another:
    Luke 3:22, "and the Holy Spirit descended on him <sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup> in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, <sup class="crossreference" value='(B)'></sup> whom I love; with you I am well pleased

    Luke 4:1, "Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, <sup class="crossreference" value='(B)'></sup> left the Jordan <sup class="crossreference" value='(C)'></sup> and was led by the Spirit <sup class="crossreference" value='(D)'></sup> into the wilderness,"

    Luke 10:21, "At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. <sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup> Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do."

    Luke 11:13, "If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him

    Luke 12:10, "And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man <sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup> will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven."

    Luke 12:12, "<sup> </sup>for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say

    John 1:33, "And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water <sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup> told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’"

    John 15:26, "When the Advocate <sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup> comes, whom I will send to you from the Father <sup class="crossreference" value='(B)'></sup> —the Spirit of truth <sup class="crossreference" value='(C)'></sup> who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me."

    John 20:22, "And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit."

    Acts 1:2, "until the day he was taken up to heaven, <sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup> after giving instructions <sup class="crossreference" value='(B)'></sup> through the Holy Spirit to the apostles <sup class="crossreference" value='(C)'></sup> he had chosen."

    Acts 1:5, " For John baptized with<sup class="footnote" value='[a]'>[a]</sup> water, <sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup> but in a few days you will be baptized with<sup class="footnote" value='[b]'>[b]</sup> the Holy Spirit

    Acts 1:8, "But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; <sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup> and you will be my witnesses <sup class="crossreference" value='(B)'></sup> in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, <sup class="crossreference" value='(C)'></sup> and to the ends of the earth.”

    I can keep going and going and going if you like. As to who is a liar:

    Romans 3:4, "Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge."
     
  18. IhRedrider

    IhRedrider Not a walker

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    Shema Israel, Adonai Eloheynu, Adonai Echad.
    Harken Israel, The Lord is God, The Lord is One.
     
  19. Animal Mother

    Animal Mother Not Enough Gun

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    It is amazing how intelligent people can dispense with logic when required to attempt and rationalize the contradictory accounts found throughout the Bible.
     
  20. FCoulter

    FCoulter

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    King, since not one verse you psyed supports a pagan trinity, nor does any of the prove the Holy Spirit as a sepetate God.

    I will now educate from the true nature of God.


    The God family.


    God—the Hebrew word is Elohim, a plural noun inherently meaning more than one—is a holy Family of intelligent Beings, composed of spirit. The God Family is eternal and all-powerful. The God Family is perfect in love, purpose and character. The God Family is Lawgiver, Creator and Sustainer of all substance and life, and upholds and controls the universe. The Scriptures reveal that the God Family created mankind “after Our image and after Our likeness.” Therefore, God is the reality of the “image and likeness” from which man was created. The God Family presently consists of God the Father and God the Son. These two members of the God Family have the same form, or “image and likeness,” which They have given to human beings, though They are composed of spirit. One of Their purposes is to increase the God Family. According to this plan and purpose, They will share Their eternal spiritual existence and Their vast creation with those human beings who will be born again by the resurrection from death into the God Family, thereby inheriting Their magnificent love, glory and power as sons and daughters of God throughout eternity.
    Scriptural References
    Gen. 1:26 - Eph. 3:9-21 - I John 4:8
    Dan. 7:9-10 - Eph. 1:3-5, 9-10 - Rev. 1:14-16
    Col. 1:12-27 - John 4:24 - Psa. 19:1-7
    Psa. 8:1-6 - Isa. 40:12-28; 57:15 - Rom. 1:20