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Jesus Christ and Socialism?

Discussion in 'Religious Issues' started by High-Gear, Aug 6, 2012.

  1. High-Gear

    High-Gear

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    I've seen Christians call others "Socialist" several times on this forum. I'v asked the question and not recieved an answer up to this point.

    Wasn't Christ a Socialist?

    Doesn't "Capitalism" stem from coveting other's goods?

    Didn't Jesus tell people to sell all they owned and give it to those in need?

    Didn't Jesus say it would be easier for a wealthy man to ride a camel through the eye of a needle then to enter the gates of heaven?

    How did the political party of the super wealthy, and corporate profits become synonymous with the party of god?
    http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/new...04/-jesus-christ-was-a-liberal-socialist.html

    Just topics for discussion, not attacks.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2012
  2. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

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    There were aspects of giving in scripture on a communal level and then there are aspects of capitalism/self-sufficiency.

    2 Thessalonians 3:6-14, "In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, <sup class="crossreference" value='(J)'></sup> we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from <sup class="crossreference" value='(K)'></sup> every believer who is idle and disruptive <sup class="crossreference" value='(L)'></sup> and does not live according to the teaching<sup class="footnote" value='[a]'>[a]</sup> you received from us. <sup class="crossreference" value='(M)'></sup> <sup class="versenum">7 </sup>For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. <sup class="crossreference" value='(N)'></sup> We were not idle when we were with you, <sup class="versenum">8 </sup>nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked <sup class="crossreference" value='(O)'></sup> night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. <sup class="versenum">9 </sup>We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, <sup class="crossreference" value='(P)'></sup> but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you to imitate. <sup class="crossreference" value='(Q)'></sup> <sup class="versenum">10 </sup>For even when we were with you, <sup class="crossreference" value='(R)'></sup> we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work <sup class="crossreference" value='(S)'></sup> shall not eat.”
    <sup class="versenum">11 </sup>We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies. <sup class="crossreference" value='(T)'></sup> <sup class="versenum">12 </sup>Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ <sup class="crossreference" value='(U)'></sup> to settle down and earn the food they eat. <sup class="crossreference" value='(V)'></sup> <sup class="versenum">13 </sup>And as for you, brothers and sisters, never tire of doing what is good. <sup class="crossreference" value='(W)'></sup>

    <sup class="versenum">14 </sup>Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, <sup class="crossreference" value='(X)'></sup> in order that they may feel ashamed. <sup class="crossreference" value='(Y)'></sup> <sup class="versenum">15 </sup>Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer."
     


  3. NMG26

    NMG26

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    "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life”.


    Sobering.
     
  4. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

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    Indeed.
     
  5. SIGlock

    SIGlock Millennium Member

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    For your information, Christians have given more to the poor than atheists. Hec, for church purposes alone....we are supposed to give 10% (tithe).

    In general, I notice that my conservative friends tend to give to charity more than my liberal friends. That's my own fact.

    If any of you here give more than 15% of your income (after tax) to charity....then you can quote the Bible's verses and be prideful about it. If not, you need to shut up.


    Yes, I am Christian. Are you?
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2012
  6. High-Gear

    High-Gear

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    Wow, why so much hate? Did I strike a nerve? How Christian of you to strike out in anger. Not everything has to be a contest (Christian vs. Atheist).

    I said nothing about giving to charity. I pointed out Jesus said some pretty socialist things, and many of the main lessons of the bible seem to lean that way, and away from amassing large fortunes. Jesus seemed to preach about taking care of your fellow man, caring for the sick (without a preferred provider network) and not seeking a profit for it. Now what I was trying to discuss is how that might translate into how we view things today where profit is the bottom line motivator, and amassing enough money to purchase the latest and greatest material item is paramount.
    This was not meant to question any individual's charitable deeds.

    But since you brought it up...
    I don't think giving to your church (clubhouse) automatically equals giving to charity. Granted if they are using those funds to feed the poor that is one thing, but to have a new $30,000 sound system, maybe that is something different.
     
  7. NMG26

    NMG26

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    The verse came from the OP's webpage.

    I'm not a Christian. I can learn from Christ and the Bible though.............can you?

    I find the quoted verse to be sobering, I think more so to the Christian. If you really look at what it says, are you doing even close to what Jesus is asking you to?
     
  8. BenjiEDF

    BenjiEDF

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  9. BenjiEDF

    BenjiEDF

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    No, capitalism is based on voluntarism. Voluntary trade that is mutually beneficial. Socialism is based on coveting other's goods, theft, and violent coercion.
     
  10. NMG26

    NMG26

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    Good point.

    Jesus was telling the rich man to voluntarily give his riches and to follow him.

    The message of Jesus has evolved into many things. The gun to the head would be the threat of hell by some interpretations.

    Many Christians believe that Jesus did teach eternal torment, sighting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazerus.
    I don't believe it.
    I tend to see all things having to do with heaven and hell as being present spiritual realities, rather then something promised for the future.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2012
  11. High-Gear

    High-Gear

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    Do as I say or burn forever in hell? Sounds like Socialism.
    Remember, there was no hell before Jesus...Jews just die, no eternal fire.:whistling:
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2012
  12. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    I believe he advocated voluntarily giving to the poor, not government ownership of resources. That is not socialism - in fact, the prosperity for charity is pretty much limited to capitalism. So, "no," he wasn't (if he actually existed).

    Really? As opposed to socialism in which we form a government that takes the good of others, by force, and gives them to everybody? Yeah, right.

    Agaian - that is charity. Charity is neither a "socialist" trait, no common among them. Why would they need voluntary charity when they have forced redistribution of wealth?

    How does capitalist = "wealthy? Capitalism just means the freedom for individuals to own the resources used to produce and for people to trade and contract freely. The guy who comes over in a van and fixes your plumbing is a capitalist, as is the guy who mows your lawn, but they may not be rich.

    Certainly, capitalism offers the freedom and potential to be wealthy, but only through voluntary exchanges and your own effort. For example, a poor member of the proletariat can start with no money and an 8th grade education and become an "evil capitalist" just by using his own hard work and intelligenece to start a chain of restaurants, like Wendy's. Or a poor kid growing up in the great depression might work his way through college doing odd jobs and working for food, but instead of complaining that the government never gives him what he needs, he'd get a degree and start working in a store and do such a good job that he'd end up owning his store, like Walmart, for example.

    Your education is lacking. Why...en the dictionary definition of "capitalism."
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2012
  13. High-Gear

    High-Gear

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    Bren,

    Don't jump to conclusions about my knowledge or lack thereof. Just because I post a topic does not necessarily mean I agree with it, sometimes I post to spur discussion.

    Now I did not once say capitalism was bad. I think when profits are put before people that is bad. When a profitable plant is closed and a community is destroyed because relocating the facility overseas could post a slightly higher profit margin due to exploiting people in poverty, that is bad.

    What I did say is capitalism does today depend on coveting goods. Keeping up with the Jones' next door is alive and well. If that were not the case no one would buy a Rolex, when a Timex keeps better time. I don't have a problem with that, I was just pointing out it does go against biblical law.

    Now, I would say the Church was, and in some places still is, a form of government. The church demands 10% of its members income, to redistribute to the poor. This is done under threat of excommunication, which equates to an eternity of hell fire. Could that not be considered socialism?
     
  14. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

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    People don't burn forever and aren't tortured forever. That is a pagan concept that is not borne out by scripture. There is a destruction by fire, but not an everlasting burning/torture by fire.
     
  15. High-Gear

    High-Gear

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    That is the position of your church I guess, but not all. I think the point still stands, you will be destroyed by fire is still a threat is it not?
     
  16. Woofie

    Woofie Disirregardless CLM

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    Depends on your denomination. One of the bigger local Baptist churches around me runs a program every year aimed at elementary and middle school age kids called "Heaven's Gates and Hell's Flames." It's goal is to terrify kids into church.
     
  17. Geko45

    Geko45 Smartass Pilot CLM

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    The only clear model of government put forth in the bible is a (somewhat) benevolent monarchy.
     
  18. whoflungdo

    whoflungdo

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    That is all anyone needs to know about you and your stance against capitalism.
     
  19. Limedust

    Limedust

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    Nope. And how many liberal friends do you have . . . the token? And of course Christians give more to the poor than atheists; there are many more of them. If you're saying per capita let's have some proof.

    Isn't pride a sin?
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2012
  20. Can't speak for this Baptist program, but you're either mischaracterizing or misunderstanding the concept.

    Hell is a consequence of our sins. God doesn't want that end for anyone, but He won't force Himself on you.

    When a doctor tells you "take this medicine or you will die," is he terrorizing you into taking the medicine? Or is he being loving and caring?
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2012