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It really is happening: ATF imposing new laws

Discussion in 'Important Gun Control Info' started by nelsone, Jul 12, 2011.

  1. OldCurlyWolf


    Aug 7, 2010
    You can keep your head in isolation and believe what you want, but the BATFE is not your friendly neighborhood beat cop and they truly deserve to be abolished, with several of all levels spending some time being introduced to "Bubba" at whatever penitentiary they are assigned to serve their time.
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2011
  2. frizz


    Jul 6, 2012
    Administrative agencies frequently create new laws. It may be called "rule-making" but the fact that rule-making can make formerly legal activities into crimes or civil wrongs makes administrative agency "rule-making" a de facto creation and imposition of new laws.

  3. Glockdude1

    Glockdude1 Federal Member CLM

    May 24, 2000
  4. Lakota


    Sep 12, 2011
    Dear FearTheBoom&Bust:

    Being unfamiliar with your 'other post in this forum', regarding the issue of Waco, please read, consider and correct or modify any misinformation you may find in the following missive on the subject of the monstrous cataclysm at Waco, Texas, commencing 19 April 1993:

    Tolerance Threshold Expansion, continued:

    Consider the rogue government and salted media-declared 'mass suicide' (publicly telecast murder of all the immediate witnesses to the rogue government, 51 day televised siege and attack: 'This is not an attack on your compound!') Waco, Tx., 19 April 1993.

    They lied on live television ('This is not an attack!') about the armored vehicle crashing through the wall and piercing the propane storage tank, instantly filling the windswept compound with flammable gas (easily ignited by any spark, pilot light or round of tracer) and tactfully cutting off the only escape route (having had and studied a detailed floor plan of the compound for nearly two months. this was not an 'accident'); murdering all but a few of the nearly one hundred occupants, but, they 'didn't lie' about who fired the first shot when it all began fifty one days earlier ('David Koresh did it').

    "There will be no coverups in this administration' - Janet Reno, the day after the catastrophic burning of the ‘Branch Davidian compound’, 4/19/’93.

    The record is not here to defend David Koresh, on the other hand, nearly one hundred innocent people including several dozen children were pinned down for nearly two months in ‘the compound’. Their electricity and water was cut off, helicopters hovered overhead playing loud music through the night: knowing there were dozens of children, with as many innocent parents, in that trapped community. Culminating in the perishment of all but a few survivors, after 51 days of siege.

    ‘The best the ATF could do.’
    Without intervention from a higher authority.

    After the situation became known to the nation via television, radio and the press, then ‘rumors’ - and contrived ‘testimonies’ - began to circulate about David Koresh having intimate relationships with underage adolescent girls. It is noteworthy that this demonisation - the allegations about David Koresh and underage children, did not become an issue until the siege was nationally televised and reported.

    The original reason for the ATF going to the compound, was to question two individual men about whether they were legally in possession of firearms or not. ‘Cult leader’ Koresh’s alleged relationships with underage girls was not an issue at all; neither was he ever legally charged with, let alone convicted of any such behavior.

    A social worker, or routinely assigned sheriff’s deputy could have been dispatched to question the two subjected men at issue. The two men the ATF wanted to question, routinely left the compound to jog and run errands. Instead, the ATF chose to pin nearly a hundred people (*with the exception of approximately seven survivors, the fates of which are unknown to this record) down in their residence, on private property. Had those people survived, it is likely that they all would have served as witnesses to who fired shots at whom, first. So, apparently for this reason (and publicly 'educational', exemplary'pay-back'), *all of the witnesses were perished by a fire deliberately started by the rogue ATF and the rogue F.B.I. - each, and both of these presiding agencies disallowing incumbent fire-men - and their abundant fire-fighting equipment at the site, from taking action; whereupon the the two cited 'agencies' heinously proclaimed the ensuing conflagration to be a ‘mass suicide’ - perishing the witnesses to what started the siege in the first place.

    (Why is the record issuing this subject now? Because: it happened, with impunity, and, it can - therefore - happen again. Witness 'Fast & Furious', while no heads rolled...)

    Refer the film - and video - 'WACO: The Rules Of Engagement. The New York Times called it “.. a doozy of an investigative expose!” Siskel & Ebert gave it ‘two thumbs up!’ The video jacket reads: “WACO: The Rules Of Engagement, is the story of federal law enforcement gone tragically wrong. It shows how the F.B.I. (and the ATF) repeatedly lied to the public and American political leaders in order to focus overwhelming deadly force on a group whose diversity of race, national origin and religious beliefs made them easy targets for a lethal abuse of its members’ civil and human rights."

    TIME magazine&#8217;s 24 July 1995 front page and feature article called the Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms <atf>law enforcement agency: &#8216;The most hated federal law enforcement agency in the U.S.</atf>&#8217;.

    The nation that will witness this and be sheepishly persuaded that what it saw and heard wasn't what was heard and seen: is looking at it's own blazing, windswept, rogue-government-quarantined future. Squared. Including the knowing, willfully extended torture and immolation of dozens of children.

    This dissertation is not interested in &#8216;system busting&#8217;, or contention with elements of law enforcement. The record is a staunch system-protector, an avid law enforcement advocate and ally...

    On the other hand, here are somber arguments with assigned authorities who patently betray their oaths of office; abuse their power, compounding this abuse by covering up their transgressions, blaming innocent people, and lying to the public and key representatives of the American government and protectors of the - much revered - U.S. Constitution (and their forthright fellow officers) about the cited abuse of power(s).

    Your signature nombre de plume *"FearTheBoomAndBust" speaks volumes antithetical to the verity of perhaps a dozen or so leaders of the American Revolution, addressing 'We the people' and those individuals and institutions installed by the 'We the people', that the government should fear the people, rather than the converse - which your very *signature directly implies: tantamount to *terrorism, which your institution heinously and unforgettably demonstrated (with the world - literally - as witness) - for 51 exemplary, undeniably terrorist saturated days, in Waco, Texas; commencing 19 April 1993.

    RSVP - Looking forward to your 'corrections', Mr. FearBoomBust.

    Sincere best regards to all peaceful participants,
    (Pilamaya-Thank You-Tiospaye - extended family)
    - Arapaho, aka, Lakota Tatanka.
    Ordained Chaplain; liaison with *A.I.M.
    *American Indian Movement

    Post Script:

    In the fairly recent past the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms), was 'modified' with the word 'Bureau' - the agency was previously known - and identified itself as - 'Alcohol, Tobbaco & Firearms - the 'ATF'.

    Just as the initials 'PC' were recently introduced to the American vocabulary: not as 'Partly cloudy', or, 'Personal Computer', but instead, now meaning 'politically correct' - a non-sequiter/oxymoron (self-contradiction) in two words, i.e., enhancing the muddied word of 'politics' with the 'spin-doctored', hyphenated word of 'correct', that is to say, 'political'-correctness'. Likewise, the former self-identified "A.T.F." 'promoted' itself with added term, "Bureau'.

    Reason for editing:
    Addition of Post Script; content, and the noteworthy - however temporary - 'silence', orbiting this inescapable, empirically
    fortifying the OP's venerable commencement of what simply proves to be an illuminating thread.
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2012
  5. Limedust


    May 15, 2012
    Yup, and the BATF is perfectly justified in doing so according to interpretation of the Second Amendment by SCOTUS in Heller vs D.C..
  6. Jerry

    Jerry Staff Member Moderator Millennium Member

    Dec 21, 1998
    Kool Aid...Kool Aid....get your Kool Aid!!!!!!!!!!!:rofl:
  7. just who do you think was behind the Fast & Furious scheme ?
  8. Clutch Cargo

    Clutch Cargo Amsterdam Haze

    Nov 29, 2010
    Since when does the ATF make laws? Unless the power to make "regulations" is given them by Congress, the regulation is unenforceable.

    Also, since when did a government SCREWUP with deadly consequences, be cause to make regulations for the populace at large? Perhaps the regulations should be within their own house instead of mine.
  9. Jerry

    Jerry Staff Member Moderator Millennium Member

    Dec 21, 1998
    I can't give you dates of when it happened but I can tell you that Congress has "relinquished it's power", granted powers to MAKE UP REGULATIONS to the BATF&E, EPA, TSA and etc. etc. We now have unelected, appointed puppets and renegades MAKING UP REGULATIONS... LAWS enforceable and punishable under penalty fine and or imprisonment.
  10. countrygun


    Mar 9, 2012
    I keep jumping up and down trying to tell people that things like the open bolt MAC10s were "outlawed" by "executive decision" inside the BATFE because they were "too easily converted to full auto". No law was passed by Congress, no initiative petition, just someone behind a desk saying "make it so" There is no mechanism, other than letters of complaint that put the writer "on the radar", no oversight, no official appeal, no accountability.

    All it would take, from Obama, would be a memo to the BATFE chief and suddenly AK-47s would be "too easily converted". Try to tell people that and it falls on deaf ears.

    I have mentioned it in a dozen threads and no one even aknowledges reading it.
  11. ergon


    Jan 13, 2005
    Chattanooga, TN
    This legislation must be stopped at all cost. This nation will not stand for this. As was stated in the Russian newspaper "Pravda". And I quote, " Do not be fooled by a belief that progressives, leftists hate guns. Oh, no, they do not. What they hate is guns in the hands of those who are not marching in lock step of their ideology. They hate guns in the hands of those who think for themselves and do not obey without question. They hate guns in those whom they have slated for a barrel to the back of the ear."
  12. firemax


    Jan 24, 2013
    Please pass this on:[ame=""]SANDY HOOK FATHER OWNS CONGRESS - YouTube[/ame]
  13. dedron


    Apr 27, 2014
    yep, get rid of the others TOO, along with 90% of the active military. they are just a giant unemployment bureau, average cost of 1/2 million $ per year per person "working" for them. while a million invaders per year are just allowed to cross our southern border! What a crock.
  14. user1

    user1 Millennium Member

    Nov 24, 1999
    Houston, TX - USA
    I believe you are right but wrong when you suggest that an Agency of the Executive Branch of the Government of the USA, "does not and cannot unilaterally create and or impose new laws." Congress with approval of the President actually 'make law'. Any agency can promulgate regulations to enforce law or to carry out it's mission, outlined by existing law. Most bureaucrats do what they are told. The lure of steady pay and benefits, and the extreme difficulties about employment termination, or employment security, (take you pick) make whores out of a lot of good men and women. Rights are eroded slowly, inch by inch; until folks wake up one morning to realize they are enslaved; no longer free... The long line of previous peoples and historic civilizations that have disappeared, and continue to disappear, seems to support the notion many, but not you, espouse.

  15. user1

    user1 Millennium Member

    Nov 24, 1999
    Houston, TX - USA

    the sound of the last statement made by this man, before members of Congress, spoke volumes....