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It’s time to address mental health and gun-free zones.

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by RussP, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. RussP

    RussP Moderator

    Jan 23, 2003
    Central Virginia
  2. TDC20


    Apr 11, 2011
    I agree on both points, Russ. The article is mostly centered on gun free zones (gun free zones = helpless victims zone), but I have been writing my representatives and hoping that the mental health aspect gets at least some attention in the upcoming debates.

    The brain is a complex chemical computer, so there may be ways of treating an imbalance. However, what may be a miracle drug for one person can apparently turn another person into a homicidal maniac. For that reason, treating people with such drugs with known dangerous side effects should be considered experimental. Maybe treating with these medications should only be allowed while the patients are institutionalized, for the safety of the public?

    I would like to see data compiled on the shooters and their medications. Should the FDA be involved in suicides and homicides where certain medications are trending? I think so! Also, what about the mental health profession? We now know the Va. Tech shooter, the Aurora shooter, and the Newtown shooter were under psychiatric care (I'm sure many more, but these I know for fact). If I were a family member of someone affected in these horrific acts, I would be seeking compensation from the shrink for malpractice, not Bushmaster. If they are not held accountable through malpractice litigation, then their methods and procedures will not change for the better.

    Can we continue to allow doctor-patient privilege to censor what the public should have known about for decades? Should we continue to remain silent, when the one thing we know for sure that is common in these acts is mental illness, psychiatric treatment, and the use of psychotropic drugs? I think the time to have that discussion was 20-30 years ago, so not to have it today is inexcusable.

    If we really want to keep this from happening again and save lives, we need to address both mental health and gun-free zones. Not to do so is not only intellectually dishonest, but a recipe for a more dangerous society.

  3. JW1178


    Jul 17, 2009
    Talking with even some non-gun or even anti-gun people, they even realize that it's not us gun guys and girls that have grown up with guns and/or have been owning and carrying for years, but it seems these killers were rather new to the gun scene. We are lucky, because most of those shootings the guns malfunctioned because they were in their break in phase. Either that or they had not tested what rounds function best in their weapons.

    What I am saying is that these people get the guns for the purpose of doing these shootings. Perhaps if people had to have a mental evaluation before purchasing a firearm for the first time it could have prevented this. However, I'm fearful that the liberals will use this to make people get an evaluation often, causing the expense and time making it too much of a hastle to own a gun.

    It doesn't have to be anything extensive, because these crackpots will be easy to spot for anyone trained in the field.
  4. ComeAndGetThem


    Mar 31, 2007
    I am 100% for doing away with "gun free zones" which is nothing more than fantasy and of course I don't want anyone who mentally can't appreciate their actions to have access to firearms or any other dangerous devices. (cars, chainsaws, etc.) The problem is, if we were able to completely abolish the "gun free zone" today and there were ever another school shooting, the left would say, "see, it didn't stop school shootings." "We have to do away with military styled, semi automatic assault weapons and high capacity magazines." Even if the killer used a revolver. They don't want to stop school shootings or any other type of crime. They want to take your firearms.
  5. AZson


    Oct 5, 2005
    I agree we need to address gun free zones. Here in AZ, a business can make them selves gun free zones, but in my opinion it is now their liability if I am robbed in or out side of their business because they opted to make me unarmed when I entered it and as for making schools gun free, it is like making fish in a barrel. This lock your doors and hide is the equivalent of the the old duck and cover against the nuclear explosion of the 50s.
    Our favorite Sheriff Joe Arpio is looking for volunteers for armed guards to patrol schools while I'm sure our psycho Sheriff here in Pima county Dupedick will do nothing except call us names again if we ask him to do something about it.
    I did write our local paper and said that if obama was really serious about ending these shootings, he needs to add free mental health care to his obamacare and no more just giving them meds then sending them home. It is way to easy for them to skip taking them.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2012
  6. SCmasterblaster

    SCmasterblaster Millennium Member

    Sep 24, 1999
    Hartford, Vermont
    I CCW a G17 and 33 rounds of ammo in two mags, and the thought of committing murder is the furthest thought from my mind.
  7. DustyJacket

    DustyJacket Directiv 10-289

    Oct 16, 2008
    Missouri, East of KC
    Mental Health: HIPAA will get in the way of just about any sort of reporting, or database.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2012
  8. jph02


    Jun 10, 2012
    Addressing the pathetic way our country approaches mental health is an extremely complex and difficult subject. The answer is not putting them all on meds or locking them up, but the community-based approach that replaced institutionalization and lobotomies is woefully underfunded and an underpaid career field.

    Besides being unwilling to pay for what we say is important to us (look at how much we pay paramedics and daycare workers compared to sports figures), we all too often want the simple solution. That's why "assault weapons" and "high capacity magazine" bans has such traction with politicians and the media. That's where "gun-free zones" came from in the first place.

    Sadly, I don't think we have the political will to actually sit down and come up with workable solutions that could make a real difference. And, if we did, we would probably fail to underwrite the cost. :dunno:
  9. emtp2rn


    Jul 14, 2007
    We tried to address the pfz's in Michigan, and everyone knows how that went..... The legislation will be reintroduced in 2013, but it won't go anywhere now.

  10. onebigelf


    Aug 28, 2004
    No doctor is going to certify anyone as sane to carry a firearm for fear that they'll be sued if wrong.

  11. Glockgeezer


    Nov 24, 2012
    Central Florida
    The Tampa Bay Times, formerly the St. Petersburg Times, has anti-gun editorials and articles nearly every day. They have never published a strongly worded pro-gun editorial and I have been writing them for yrs. Yet, in their classified ads, under Sporting Goods, they sell ad space for rifles, hand-guns and ammunition for face-to-face sales with no background checks or even ID. Every add I've seen asks more than the gun could be purchased for NIB. My guess is that most buyers could not pass a background check and are willing to pay extra for the gun. I'm not making a judgement call here just pointing out the hypocrisy of the liberal rag sheet.
  12. SCmasterblaster

    SCmasterblaster Millennium Member

    Sep 24, 1999
    Hartford, Vermont
    My psychiatrist thinks that my CCW is AOK.
  13. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

    Apr 30, 2005
    Yeah, but what does he think about you?

  14. SCmasterblaster

    SCmasterblaster Millennium Member

    Sep 24, 1999
    Hartford, Vermont
    He thinks that I am just fine with CCW.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2012
  15. If young Adam Lanza had been fighting cancer there would have been an out-pouring of community support for him and his mother that would have been overwhelming.

    Apparently Adam's mother was quite the social butterfly in town but very few people knew about her struggle at home with her son. People say she never really talked about her home life or her son much. She knew when you start talking about mental illness in the family it scares people. They start avoiding you. They don't want their kids hanging out at your hose anymore.

    I know this first hand, when someone in your family has brain chemistry issues you just don't talk about it. Also, other people just don't want to deal with it, or you in a lot of cases.

    When my step-son was diagnosed bi-polar we got ZERO support from anyone outside of us. We were left on our own to begin the journey of 1000 miles to find out what his issues were and where and how to get treatment.

    The entire community up there is as responsible for this atrocity as Adam Lanza and his mother.

    All the Best,
    D. White
  16. SCmasterblaster

    SCmasterblaster Millennium Member

    Sep 24, 1999
    Hartford, Vermont
    That young man should have never been able to touch a firearm, and his mother knew this quite well.
  17. UtahIrishman

    UtahIrishman BLR Silver Member

    Nov 11, 2001
    The issue of Gun Free Zones is a moot point here in Utah. But I would agree that they need to be done away with. They don't accomplish anything other than to point out targets for those that want to shoot something or someone up.

    The mental issue side is much more complex. For one thing the mental health of any individual can change, either for better or for worse over time. And sometimes those mental health issues are only minor.

    I don't believe that someone who is on meds for depression or similar problems is necessarily a risk. In fact if they are on medication they are most likely addressing or have addressed their problems to some degree.

    I think the only way to effectively determine serious mental health issues is to profile. The majority of these mass killings have been done by young white males who lack social skills. That would be a starting point.

    Another thought that comes to mind is using the theory of Risk Analysis to pinpoint troubles. Risk Analysis is used in Information Technology and Business Cases to determine what the optimum strategy is for a business. It can be applied to social situations as well.
  18. papercidal


    Jun 7, 2012
    The existence of gun free zones seems to be evidence that mental health problems are far more widespread than we would like to admit. If proclaiming something to be makes it so perhaps we should proclaim schools to be "Pedophile free zones" and do nothing to prevent their hiring because everyone knows that the deranged would never disobey a sign.
  19. I always thought of HIPAA as a medical coding system and suppose I never considered the privacy issues incident to HIPAA. But checking it out, it appears there are allowances for disclosure in several cases. It probably needs to be tested in the court system.

    Law Enforcement Purposes. Covered entities may disclose protected health
    information to law enforcement officials for law enforcement purposes under
    the following six circumstances, and subject to specified conditions: (1) as
    required by law (including court orders, court-ordered warrants, subpoenas)
    and administrative requests; (2) to identify or locate a suspect, fugitive,
    material witness, or missing person; (3) in response to a law enforcement
    official’s request for information about a victim or suspected victim of a
    crime; (4) to alert law enforcement of a person’s death, if the covered entity
    suspects that criminal activity caused the death; (5) when a covered entity
    believes that protected health information is evidence of a crime that
    occurred on its premises; and (6) by a covered health care provider in a
    medical emergency not occurring on its premises, when necessary to inform
    law enforcement about the commission and nature of a crime, the location of
    the crime or crime victims, and the perpetrator of the crime.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2012
  20. SCmasterblaster

    SCmasterblaster Millennium Member

    Sep 24, 1999
    Hartford, Vermont
    My VA hospital here in White River Junction, VT has signs up at every entrance declaring all weapons to be illegal. But there is nothing else to stop someone from carrying an M16 rifle onto the property.