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Is there a +P, 180 gr, 40 S&W, Bonded, JHP ?

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by flw, Oct 15, 2012.


  1. flw

    flw
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    Please note I do not reload.

    As the title states my question, I have looked at Gander Mnt, some local gun stores and not found any. Since that doesn't mean they don't exist, I thought I'd ask.

    Who makes a +P (or +P+), 180 or 165 gr,40 S&W Bonded, JHP ?

    Then where can I pick some up from?

    Thank you for your time.
     

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  2. dkf

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    SAAMI does not recognize a +P or +P+ designation in .40sw. The .40 ammo you do see that says .40+P is basically made up by the boutique ammo maker to designate a hot load. Underwood, Buffalo Bore, Double Tap and some others sell ammo loaded hot (at or near max pressure) with bonded bullets. The bonded bullet in those loads is usually the Speer Gold Dot.
     

    #2 dkf, Oct 15, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
  3. MAC702

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    The .38 +P, 9mm +P, and .45 +P loads that you see are because modern guns are much stronger than these very old cartridges were originally designed for.

    The .40 is already a modern cartridge designed for modern guns. No +P is necessary, nor would it be a good thing.

    If you see one, it is a far less "extra" than you would get from a +P loading in one of the older cartridges, and mostly just marketing.
     
  4. Trigger Finger

    Trigger Finger
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    Underwood Ammo has 40 Cal ammunition that is listed as +P. They have 135, 155, 165 and 180 grain loads that are all listed as +P.

    I like the 165 grain Bonded Hollow Point +P, listed at 1200 fps. It feels pretty hot. I don't know if it is truly +P loadings or not but it works great in my G27. I only fire about 300 to 350 rounds a year of this ammo.

    http://www.underwoodammo.com/40sandw.aspx
     
    #4 Trigger Finger, Oct 16, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  5. NEOH212

    NEOH212
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    Diesel Girl

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    Yes, it's called the 10mm!

    :wavey:
     
  6. MAC702

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    Only 25 FPS faster (within rounding range) of Hornady 165-grain Critical Defense, listed at 1175 FPS.
     
  7. vafish

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    It's not +p because saami doesn't have a standard for +p .40

    So either Underwood is loading to pressures above saami limits to which your gun was designed, or, they are lying to you and using +p as marketing hype.

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  8. cowboy1964

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    So then +P+ in 9mm is a lie too, right? Same situation.
     
  9. Scoob

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    As said some companies have taken to adding a +p to cartridges that have no +p rating. I've seen this on .40, 10mm, .380 and a few others. I seriously doubt they are loading above limits. That would be reckless and dangerous.
     
  10. Scoob

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    You have a point. I just assume that they are within pressure since they don't exceed some of the max listed handloads but who knows.
     
  11. SDGlock23

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    I would say Underwoods is the best bet for the more powerful than factory ammo. As others have said, either they are loading beyond saami spec of 35K PSI or it's just used to differentiate it from "regular" .40 ammo, but the +P rating does make one wonder. It is fully possible to get what would roughly equal +P performance without actually going over pressure, it's called slow burning powder. To use the .40 as an example, with a Glock 35 it's easy as cake to get to and over 1200 fps with 180gr bullet, just have to use the right powder, and it's not over pressure. 155's around 1400 fps, etc.

    I will say this... I no longer own a 10mm since the .40 is good enough, but as I was dismantling some of my 10mm ammo, I decided to keep the Gold Dot bullets from my boxes of Underwoods ammo so I can later use them in my .40's. Pulled the bullets and curiosity got the best of me and I just had to weigh the powder charge (Underwoods 180gr Gold Dot 10mm). I'm not a reloading noob and I can tell you with certainly the powder used was 800x, no doubt about it...and at least 9.5gr of it. Look up what book max is.

    I have for sometime wondered about the saami spec of 35K psi for the .40. The 10mm is rated at 37.5K psi yet it's no real secret that the .40 has a stronger case than the 10mm. There's only 2.5K psi difference, one would think with it's stronger case the .40 should easily handle that. In addition, the 357 Sig is rated for 40K. I don't think it's any thicker in the web than the .40, so why isn't the .40 rated for 40K too, since they're essentially the same?
     
  12. Merkavaboy

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    Aww, come on now Cowboy, we know that you know better than this...
    :wavey:
     
    #12 Merkavaboy, Oct 16, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  13. Merkavaboy

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    And we know that these companies are blatantly lying about such products. These are the companies you don't walk but RUN AWAY from because they are pushing the envelope on such cartridges and all it takes is for some nimrod to buy their 380+P ammo and try using it in some old Beretta or cheap pot-metal Lorcin and wind up blowing their hands off.
     
  14. GIockGuy24

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    The 40 S&W SAAMI specs, submitted by Winchester, call for a thinner case with slightly more case capacity but a weaker case than used today. Federal used a "soft" brass and suffered more bullet set back than most. This, combined with the "large" chambers in Glock pistols, often resulted in case failures. Federal recalled their 40 S&W ammunition and beefed up the case to a heavier, stronger design. The other American ammunition companies soon followed. The SAAMI specs remain the same though. Today most 40 S&W cases are about as thick and strong as 357 Sig cases. Newer powders allow higher velocities while staying within the pressure limits these days.
     
  15. SJ 40

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    Best answer ! :rofl: SJ 40
     
  16. SDGlock23

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    I kind of figured they were about the same. I'm glad the .40 and 357 use small pistol primers, I think the use of large primers is the weak spot with 10mm.
     
  17. vafish

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    No, +p+ is a sammi authorized designation for pressure levels above saami limits in the 9mm and .38 special.

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  18. dkf

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    Have any info from SAAMI that supports that?
     
  19. oldman11

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    +1 :supergrin:
     
  20. MAC702

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    This only works in a S&W M610, since I know of no other guns designed to fire both cartridges interchangeably.

    But then I would say the .40 is a "special" version of the 10mm anyway.
     
    #20 MAC702, Oct 16, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
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