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Is there a +P, 180 gr, 40 S&W, Bonded, JHP ?

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by flw, Oct 15, 2012.

  1. flw

    flw

    357
    0
    Apr 4, 2012
    Please note I do not reload.

    As the title states my question, I have looked at Gander Mnt, some local gun stores and not found any. Since that doesn't mean they don't exist, I thought I'd ask.

    Who makes a +P (or +P+), 180 or 165 gr,40 S&W Bonded, JHP ?

    Then where can I pick some up from?

    Thank you for your time.
     
  2. dkf

    dkf

    5,433
    125
    Aug 6, 2010
    SAAMI does not recognize a +P or +P+ designation in .40sw. The .40 ammo you do see that says .40+P is basically made up by the boutique ammo maker to designate a hot load. Underwood, Buffalo Bore, Double Tap and some others sell ammo loaded hot (at or near max pressure) with bonded bullets. The bonded bullet in those loads is usually the Speer Gold Dot.
     

    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012

  3. MAC702

    MAC702 Senior Member

    426
    1
    Jan 12, 2006
    Clark County, NV
    The .38 +P, 9mm +P, and .45 +P loads that you see are because modern guns are much stronger than these very old cartridges were originally designed for.

    The .40 is already a modern cartridge designed for modern guns. No +P is necessary, nor would it be a good thing.

    If you see one, it is a far less "extra" than you would get from a +P loading in one of the older cartridges, and mostly just marketing.
     
  4. Underwood Ammo has 40 Cal ammunition that is listed as +P. They have 135, 155, 165 and 180 grain loads that are all listed as +P.

    I like the 165 grain Bonded Hollow Point +P, listed at 1200 fps. It feels pretty hot. I don't know if it is truly +P loadings or not but it works great in my G27. I only fire about 300 to 350 rounds a year of this ammo.

    http://www.underwoodammo.com/40sandw.aspx
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  5. NEOH212

    NEOH212 Diesel Girl

    8,983
    11
    Mar 25, 2008
    North East Ohio
    Yes, it's called the 10mm!

    :wavey:
     
  6. MAC702

    MAC702 Senior Member

    426
    1
    Jan 12, 2006
    Clark County, NV
    Only 25 FPS faster (within rounding range) of Hornady 165-grain Critical Defense, listed at 1175 FPS.
     
  7. It's not +p because saami doesn't have a standard for +p .40

    So either Underwood is loading to pressures above saami limits to which your gun was designed, or, they are lying to you and using +p as marketing hype.

    Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
     
  8. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

    19,681
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    U.S.A.
    So then +P+ in 9mm is a lie too, right? Same situation.
     
  9. Scoob

    Scoob

    188
    5
    Sep 10, 2002
    NC
    As said some companies have taken to adding a +p to cartridges that have no +p rating. I've seen this on .40, 10mm, .380 and a few others. I seriously doubt they are loading above limits. That would be reckless and dangerous.
     
  10. Scoob

    Scoob

    188
    5
    Sep 10, 2002
    NC
    You have a point. I just assume that they are within pressure since they don't exceed some of the max listed handloads but who knows.
     
  11. SDGlock23

    SDGlock23 Glockoholic

    I would say Underwoods is the best bet for the more powerful than factory ammo. As others have said, either they are loading beyond saami spec of 35K PSI or it's just used to differentiate it from "regular" .40 ammo, but the +P rating does make one wonder. It is fully possible to get what would roughly equal +P performance without actually going over pressure, it's called slow burning powder. To use the .40 as an example, with a Glock 35 it's easy as cake to get to and over 1200 fps with 180gr bullet, just have to use the right powder, and it's not over pressure. 155's around 1400 fps, etc.

    I will say this... I no longer own a 10mm since the .40 is good enough, but as I was dismantling some of my 10mm ammo, I decided to keep the Gold Dot bullets from my boxes of Underwoods ammo so I can later use them in my .40's. Pulled the bullets and curiosity got the best of me and I just had to weigh the powder charge (Underwoods 180gr Gold Dot 10mm). I'm not a reloading noob and I can tell you with certainly the powder used was 800x, no doubt about it...and at least 9.5gr of it. Look up what book max is.

    I have for sometime wondered about the saami spec of 35K psi for the .40. The 10mm is rated at 37.5K psi yet it's no real secret that the .40 has a stronger case than the 10mm. There's only 2.5K psi difference, one would think with it's stronger case the .40 should easily handle that. In addition, the 357 Sig is rated for 40K. I don't think it's any thicker in the web than the .40, so why isn't the .40 rated for 40K too, since they're essentially the same?
     
  12. Merkavaboy

    Merkavaboy Code-7A KUZ769

    Aww, come on now Cowboy, we know that you know better than this...
    :wavey:
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  13. Merkavaboy

    Merkavaboy Code-7A KUZ769

    And we know that these companies are blatantly lying about such products. These are the companies you don't walk but RUN AWAY from because they are pushing the envelope on such cartridges and all it takes is for some nimrod to buy their 380+P ammo and try using it in some old Beretta or cheap pot-metal Lorcin and wind up blowing their hands off.
     
  14. GIockGuy24

    GIockGuy24 Bring M&M's

    4,037
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    Jul 14, 2005
    With Amber Lamps
    The 40 S&W SAAMI specs, submitted by Winchester, call for a thinner case with slightly more case capacity but a weaker case than used today. Federal used a "soft" brass and suffered more bullet set back than most. This, combined with the "large" chambers in Glock pistols, often resulted in case failures. Federal recalled their 40 S&W ammunition and beefed up the case to a heavier, stronger design. The other American ammunition companies soon followed. The SAAMI specs remain the same though. Today most 40 S&W cases are about as thick and strong as 357 Sig cases. Newer powders allow higher velocities while staying within the pressure limits these days.
     
  15. SJ 40

    SJ 40

    13,306
    2,977
    Jan 17, 2011
    Vermont
    Best answer ! :rofl: SJ 40
     
  16. SDGlock23

    SDGlock23 Glockoholic

    I kind of figured they were about the same. I'm glad the .40 and 357 use small pistol primers, I think the use of large primers is the weak spot with 10mm.
     
  17. No, +p+ is a sammi authorized designation for pressure levels above saami limits in the 9mm and .38 special.

    Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
     
  18. dkf

    dkf

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    Aug 6, 2010
    Have any info from SAAMI that supports that?
     
  19. oldman11

    oldman11

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    Texas
    +1 :supergrin:
     
  20. MAC702

    MAC702 Senior Member

    426
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    Jan 12, 2006
    Clark County, NV
    This only works in a S&W M610, since I know of no other guns designed to fire both cartridges interchangeably.

    But then I would say the .40 is a "special" version of the 10mm anyway.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012