Glock Talk banner

Is the tactical shotgun obsolete?

38K views 235 replies 113 participants last post by  CV67Chris 
#1 ·
I know lots of guys will wade through the muck with their Benelli or Wingmaster shotguns and bring ducks home for dinner.

But I'm talking about the shorter ones, the 18-inch-ish configuration ones with the purpose of using it for police work, "SHTF" or whatever, essentially using it for the purposes one would use a carbine.

While watching an episode of Rescue 911 (Bonus points if you remember when that show was on the air!) on YouTube, an officer was being shot by an offender at a distance that apparently was out of shotgun range, so after being injured he had to somehow reach for his M14 patrol rifle and fire back.

People have valid criticisms of the shotgun, including:
"It's too heavy!"
"It's too slow to reload"
"It holds too few rounds"
"Its limited in effective distance which puts me at a disadvantage"

All of those are good points. I mean, after all, an AR which holds 30 rounds (or 5 to 10 depending on how horrible your local laws are :crying: ) is lighter, quicker handling, and recoils significantly less. It can be reloaded quicker, is more accurate, especialy out to distance, and can be used in versatile conditions.

It seems to be the nail in the coffin of what would be a tactical shotgun. I mean, wouldn't cops or civilians alike want 30 rounds on tap compared to 6 or 7? Faster follow-up shots versus having to pump? Eliminating the jams associated with short stroking the action? Something easier on both the shoulder and the pocketbook (assuming we're talking buckshot and slug prices).

Surely somebody will stick up for the tactical shotgun? I voted with my money, with a top of the line 870 Police Magnum. Though 7.62x39 semi-automatic rifles that hang in the safe have many of the same positive attributes.

Despite the demerits against the shotgun, I can't help but grab it and a pocket full of buckshot and slugs when I head out into the woods.

But I see less and less people who want a shotgun and make a b-line for some kind of a carbine in its place, or keep the 12 gauge for birds or maybe a slug barrel for deer in wooded areas.

Your thoughts? Is the tactical shotgun role obsolete? Does it have many redeeming qualities over the AR15 platform?
 
See less See more
#27 · (Edited)
Mine would still be my primary house defense weapon. furthest at any point in my house I shoot is around 25' im thinking a Remington 870 will throw a good pattern of buck(OO) or #4 buck) at that range from memory. If I were out in the "woods" out side town I may go with the AK74 but not where I live.

maybe im nuts or im not looking at this right or just plain wrong. But the way I see this is. At 25' or less when I pull the trigger and as long as I do my part and actually hit what im aiming at...ive put as much lead/holes into a target as a M4 would in 3 quick 3 round bursts(9 holes/9 pellets) in one pull of the trigger in my Shotgun. Now I realize I dont have the CAPACITY with my shotgun as a 30 round mag or even a 15 round mag..but I can combat reload pretty decently and being in town hope to get everyone to a bedroom area till the cavalry arrives. and at that point if its really going badly the "safe room" has all the other stuff I use for HD in it also so then its all available.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Ok for certain applications, but mostly obsolete.
:rofl:

1. Carbines have been around longer than "tactical" shotguns, so why would they just now become superior?

2. The distance from which people will try to kill you hasn't changed.

3. You guys read too many BS gun magazines and listen to too many mall ninjas on youtube.
 
#30 ·
:rofl:

1. Carbines have been around longer than "tactical" shotguns, so why would they just now become superior?

2. The distance from which people will try to kill you hasn't changed.

3. You guys read too many BS gun magazines and listen to too many mall ninjas on youtube.
Don't you know that these hard mofos are always going up against bad guys who dressed up like Rainbow Six operators?
 
#34 ·
Not obsolete! HD you cannot beat a good tactical shotgun mine is a Mossberg 590A1 I can get 8 in tube one in chamber and 4 in speedfeed stock. What more could you want or need plus all the flexibility of the various shotgun shells you can buy from 00 buck to bird shot #8 to slugs. I also have a AR for the times when range may be greater.
 
#38 ·
Shotguns in professional application are only used for breaching and non-lethal roles.
You are kidding, right?

Police officers aren't "Professional" right?

My best friend who carried an FN 12ga, among other shotguns, during a full career in Special Forces (Having retired just a couple of years go) wasn't a "professional" by your standards either I guess :upeyes:
 
#39 ·
Only by landlubbers. The fleet loves them some shotguns.


When was the last time the fleet actually fired at a badguy that didn't involve a cruise missile or 5 inch deck gun? :rofl:




Shotguns are great for a few limited roles.

Breaching, LL employment, and jobs that require possibly dealing with animals. (Rural LE, survival etc)


Aside from those scenario's though, the SG, is second to the rifle. Even a small caliber rifle, is orders of magnitude more effective than the SG as a weapon.
 
#40 ·
You are kidding, right?

Police officers aren't "Professional" right?

My best friend who carried an FN 12ga, among other shotguns, during a full career in Special Forces (Having retired just a couple of years go) wasn't a "professional" by your standards either I guess :upeyes:


A.) Probably more than just a "couple" years ago.

B.)If it wasn't, he probably didn't use it for much other than breaching. Thats pretty much what the .mil uses shotguns for. IIRC, we have a SGM here who works at the Army shotgun training school.
 
#41 ·
I look at shotguns just like SMGs (which were designed to fill a similar combat role).

Inside their niche, they're awesome for many purposes.

Too many people try to then make it a one size fits all solution, which they're not awesome for.

MP5's are superb room clearing weapons against non-armored targets. Soon as you leave the building though, you're severely restricted in what you can do compared to any rifle. Same with a shotgun. Rearranging someone's rib cage at 5 yards? Sure, shotgun is fine. Hunting, etc, still fine.

Out where I am, wide open spaces and 500-1,000m wide open spaces are often the norm. I'd rather have something that clears more than 100m (barely)... Any 5.56 or 7.62, especially scoped, can handle out to 400+ if for some odd reason, a guy half a county over got REALLY pissed at me.
 
#42 ·
A.) Probably more than just a "couple" years ago.

B.)If it wasn't, he probably didn't use it for much other than breaching. Thats pretty much what the .mil uses shotguns for. IIRC, we have a SGM here who works at the Army shotgun training school.
Uhm, not really

and

A couple of hadjis aren't around to argue the point.

but not my story to tell.

Still trying to figure out how a 'professional" who uses the shotgun is suddenly "unprofessional" because of that choice.
 
#45 ·
When was the last time the fleet actually fired at a badguy that didn't involve a cruise missile or 5 inch deck gun? :rofl:




Shotguns are great for a few limited roles.

Breaching, LL employment, and jobs that require possibly dealing with animals. (Rural LE, survival etc)


Aside from those scenario's though, the SG, is second to the rifle. Even a small caliber rifle, is orders of magnitude more effective than the SG as a weapon.
Nice bit of ignorance. The USN boards hundreds of vessels per year. Shotguns go in numbers on every boarding due to their CQB prowess.
 
#46 ·
Shotguns in professional application are only used for breaching and non-lethal roles.
The Coast Guard requires me to qualify with a shotgun every six months. 00 buck, no breaching or less than lethal rounds. Some units use less than lethal rounds but it is not the exclusive reason for the shotgun being issued.
 
#47 ·
Uhm, not really

and

A couple of hadjis aren't around to argue the point.

but not my story to tell.

Still trying to figure out how a 'professional" who uses the shotgun is suddenly "unprofessional" because of that choice.
Just because he shot a couple of people with it, hardly means it was the go to choice.

I know of atleast one soldier who killed a guy with a crash axe. Doesn't mean it was the go to choice. Simply what was available. I'm sure we can find a couple instances of the M107 or M2CG/M3 being used on people. But it hardly makes them the choice weapon.

Nice bit of ignorance. The USN boards hundreds of vessels per year. Shotguns go in numbers on every boarding due to their CQB prowess.
I really don't think its their "prowess" that is the reason they use the shotgun.

Much more likely, that its because the navy has thousands of them, and they offer a low cost option that meets their requirement.


If shotguns really were the boarding weapon of choice, you wouldn't see the guys who specialize in taking down boats and airplanes, and other CQB places running SMG's and SBR's.



I'm not saying shotguns don't work. They do, they'll kill you dead.


But in professional use, they have been relegated to second teir employment, I.E. specialized uses. LL, Breaching etc.


As a home owner, as a rural LE, in some specialty roles, its still in use, and has a relevant niche. In the tactical role though, it is quite correct, they're fading, and fading fast.
 
#49 ·
Just because he shot a couple of people with it, hardly means it was the go to choice.

I know of atleast one soldier who killed a guy with a crash axe. Doesn't mean it was the go to choice. Simply what was available. I'm sure we can find a couple instances of the M107 or M2CG/M3 being used on people. But it hardly makes them the choice weapon.
The fact that it was a choice and it wasn't taken for breaching purposes wouldn't affect your professional opinion of the choice of such an amateur as a career SF NCO.

AW, heck, like I said, it isn't my story to tell, and I guess you are right, all these other people just don't know what they are doing. The final decision on the internetz is up to pros like you.
 
#50 ·
The fact that it was a choice and it wasn't taken for breaching purposes wouldn't affect your professional opinion of the choice of such an amateur as a career SF NCO.

AW, heck, like I said, it isn't my story to tell, and I guess you are right, all these other people just don't know what they are doing. The final decision on the internetz is up to pros like you.


Claiming to know a guy who claims to have used a shotgun to kill some bad guys, is hardly conclusive evidence that tactical shotguns are not being relegated to second line duty.
 
#51 ·
You are kidding, right?

Police officers aren't "Professional" right?

My best friend who carried an FN 12ga, among other shotguns, during a full career in Special Forces (Having retired just a couple of years go) wasn't a "professional" by your standards either I guess :upeyes:

Our agency uses them as does the local PD. they ALSO have patrol rifles(M4 variety) but I think agencies still sue them depending on what they have going on. Last time I looked they had the patrol rifle in the trunk in a bag and the shotgun in the front.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top