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Is It Wrong?

Discussion in 'Tech Talk' started by zaggie, Jul 31, 2005.

  1. zaggie

    zaggie

    86
    0
    Jun 15, 2004
    South Bend, IN
    Brought my laptop to the lake cottage today. No internet hooked up there, but when I turned on my laptop it immediately found an unsecured wireless network. Is it wrong to use this to surf the net?
     
  2. ronin_asano

    ronin_asano

    474
    0
    Apr 13, 2004
    depends on the laws in your state. it might not be illegal, but i think it's unethical if you do it without knowledge and consent of the owner.
     


  3. funbob

    funbob do a lil' dance

    271
    0
    Dec 13, 2002
    ABQ, NM
    It's a legal gray area at this time. Unless I'm reasonably sure that the access point is meant for public access, I'd refrain from using it. I wouldn't want folks using my wireless connection partly out of concern of what they might do while using it but also because I pay good money for my internet connection and equipment and don't want others using up my bandwidth. Then again, I also take steps to make sure my network is reasonably secure. Lots of folks don't have the knowledge to do this (try driving around with a wireless device one day, the amount of unsecured networks is mind boggling) but that doesn't mean their ignorance should be taken advantage of.
     
  4. Nyper

    Nyper

    351
    0
    Jan 2, 2004
    Lebanon TN
    I don't think it's the least bit unethical. Perhaps they leave it unsecured because they don't mind sharing. If they want it secured, they should secure it. ;a
     
  5. David_G17

    David_G17 /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

    2,046
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    Oct 7, 2002
    do you feel the same way about cable TV?
     
  6. HerrGlock

    HerrGlock Scouts Out CLM

    23,791
    182
    Dec 28, 2000
    It's not a gray area:

    TITLE 35 CRIMINAL LAW AND PROCEDURE
    ARTICLE 43 OFFENSES AGAINST PROPERTY
    CHAPTER 2 BURGLARY--TRESPASS

    Burns Ind. Code Ann. @ 35-43-2-3
    35-43-2-3. Computer trespass.

    (a) As used in this section:
    "Access" means to:
    (1) Approach;
    (2) Instruct;
    (3) Communicate with;
    (4) Store data in;
    (5) Retrieve data from; or
    (6) Make use of resources of;
    a computer, computer system, or computer network.
    "Computer network" means the interconnection of communication lines with a computer through remote terminals or a complex consisting of two (2) or more interconnected computers.
    "Computer system" means a set of related computer equipment, software, or hardware.

    (b) A person who knowingly or intentionally accesses:
    (1) A computer system;
    (2) A computer network; or
    (3) Any part of a computer system or computer network;
    without the consent of the owner of the computer system or computer network, or the consent of the owner's licensee, commits computer trespass, a Class A misdemeanor. [P.L.35-1986, @ 3.]
     
  7. Sgt. Schultz

    Sgt. Schultz Annoying Member

    Just because some state law makers are lagging behind does not make it legal, it’s still theft of service. If you found your neighbors telephone (cordless or cellular) lying in the street would you return it to him or would you use it to make long distance calls? What’s the difference? Whether it’s an unsecured router or a lost telephone, etc… they are/were careless and most decent people with help them correct their errors. I’ve never understood why routers are sold with the security disabled!



    Hmmm…. Unethical
    1: not conforming to approved standards of social or professional behavior; "unethical business practices" 2: not adhering to ethical or moral principles; "base and unpatriotic motives"; "a base, degrading way of life"; "cheating is dishonorable"; "they considered colonialism immoral"; "unethical practices in handling public funds" dishonorable, immoral
     
  8. partspin

    partspin gib

    21
    0
    Jun 30, 2005
    Midwest
    Somebody is broadcasting a wireless signal onto your property. I don't view this any differently than sitting in your own house with a scanner and listening to the neighbors cordless phone conversations. As far as I'm concerned, if it's on my property... it's mine. I don't feel bad about using the neighbors, hell, I have even considered cancelling my service and using theirs exclusively. Don't broadcast unencrypted wireless signals to your neighbors house if you don't want them to use it...
     
  9. Teal'c

    Teal'c

    15
    0
    Jan 3, 2005
    That still makes you a thief, here's hoping that they will "broadcast" a Trojan or Worm onto your system!

    "sitting in your own house with a scanner and listening to the neighbors cordless phone conversations" ... wow talk about a lonely and deranged individual .... By the way, it is illegal to listen in on a private conversation.
     
  10. srhoades

    srhoades

    2,799
    10
    Jul 14, 2000

    So if I happend to find one of your windows or doors unlocked I should just assume I am welcome since it was not secure, right?
     
  11. partspin

    partspin gib

    21
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    Jun 30, 2005
    Midwest
    Wrong, that would be tresspassing and it would get you shot. Why would you broadcast something onto other people's property and expect privacy or security?
     
  12. partspin

    partspin gib

    21
    0
    Jun 30, 2005
    Midwest
    I agree, it is a lonely individual that would listen to cordless phone conversations.

    Is it a private conversation if it's being broadcast to your neighbor's house?

    One can listen to private conversations on a train everyday, and I've yet to hear of one person being arrested for it. One can easily overhear many cell phone conversations too.

    One cannot broadcast data, radio, or other emissions to another persons property and expect privacy.
     
  13. HerrGlock

    HerrGlock Scouts Out CLM

    23,791
    182
    Dec 28, 2000
    So your neighbours are welcome to cancel their own phone service and just use yours? How considerate of you.

    DanH
     
  14. Sgt. Schultz

    Sgt. Schultz Annoying Member

    It's not being broadcast to your house, it's being broadcast to the base unit. And yes it is illegal to listen in on someones cell/cordless conversation ... why do you think they stop selling scanners that would pickup those channels?
     
  15. partspin

    partspin gib

    21
    0
    Jun 30, 2005
    Midwest
    Then there is no problem, right? If I can't connect to your wireless connection because you aren't broadcasting it to my property, then the problem is solved, now isn't it? Seems like a real easy solution to the problem of privacy.
     
  16. HerrGlock

    HerrGlock Scouts Out CLM

    23,791
    182
    Dec 28, 2000
    Outstanding. So, making sure all your neighbours have wireless phones that are on the freqs to your base would cause no problem at all.

    Great.
    DanH
     
  17. partspin

    partspin gib

    21
    0
    Jun 30, 2005
    Midwest
    If you are concerned about privacy you have two options... use a corded phone, or use a cordless, but make sure that your neighbor is not in range. Same applies to networks for computers.

    Otherwise, it's almost implied consent to be snooped on. Just like you have no expectation of privacy on a train, you don't have any expectation of privacy if you are broadcasting to your neighbor's property.
     
  18. grantglock

    grantglock /dev/null

    219
    0
    Feb 20, 2004
    Iowa
    it's a lake cottage, its not like you are going to be using this as your primary internet connection forever. go ahead and use it. In fact I leave my own access point open so people near my house can use mine if they need to. I won't allow people to use it 24/7 but the occassional user is no problem.
     
  19. Nyper

    Nyper

    351
    0
    Jan 2, 2004
    Lebanon TN
    Most of ya'll are being pretty ignorant about this. I work in telecommunications as a network administrator. Using a wireless network that is being broadcast and unsecured is nothing like stealing cable, using a cell phone someone has left behind, walking into unlocked doors, or using a scanner to detect someone else's private phone calls. I'm not dabbling into their personal information or imposing in their personal space. Sure, I am using their bandwidth, but I check email & browse the web. I'm not causing performance issues for them.

    If you are flipping channels, and suddenly a big pay-per-view event is coming through your satellite or cable for free (by mistake of the cable provider), are you going to call them and ask them to send you a bill?

    Now, if you cut the lock on a cable box and tap into your neighbor's line, I'll agree.. that is completely unethical and stealing.

    Do I think it is unethical to use your neighbor's wireless Internet for a whole year without mentioning to him? You're leeching off of something he is paying for and that is just rude, in my opinion. Does that make it unethical? I don't know... I personally wouldn't do it.

    Do I think it is unethical to use a wireless connection in my own home from my neighbor if my Internet happens to go down for a few hours one night? Not at all. If someone wants to tell me they have an unsecured network and would appreciate me not using it, then I will gladly comply and not use it. Otherwise, lock it up.
     
  20. srhoades

    srhoades

    2,799
    10
    Jul 14, 2000
    Red herring. The fact that is causes no noticable decrease in performance does not negate the fact that it doesn't belong to you.


    So it ok to use it for a little bit, but not for a year? At what point is it wrong, a month, two, six?

    That is just silly. Unless you have already been given permission, it is implied, secured or not, that you do not have permission to access it.