Is Gaston Glock on the same level as John Browning?

Discussion in 'General Firearms Forum' started by ticshooter, Feb 7, 2013.


  1. If you look at the totality and longevity of Browning's firearms designs, there is really nobody who is on his level. And it's not even close. Those who are arguing this point apparently have no idea how many successful firearms...military and commercial...pistols, rifles, shotguns, machine guns, etc. ...that JB is actually responsible for. Sure, there have been other great designers who have produced a great design, or two, or three ("improvements" on someone else's original design really shouldn't be counted)...but there is no one, repeat no one, who has had as many successful designs and whose designs have remained as viable, even cutting edge, for as long.
     

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    #161 TxGun, Feb 10, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2013
  2. Indeed, I was just referring to the other poster's mistaken concept.

    BYW I didn't think Browning was still alive when Duidonne Sauivie (sp?) finished up the P-35 design?
     

  3. delete---double entry
     
    #163 willieH, Feb 10, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2013
  4. Now that's funny:supergrin:
     
  5. No he wasn't.

    Dieudonné Saive incorporated some patents that had expired after Brownings death into the Hi-Power, like the lock breach design from the 1911, etc..

    Browning's original design for the Hi-Power was straight blowback I think.

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    #165 RyanBDawg, Feb 10, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2013
  6. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

    Like I said, no major military force.
     
  7. Yea, it's not like Israel has been involved in any heavy engagements in the last 30 years or anything.

    And why is the Glock's prevalence or absence in major conflicts in any way shape or form an issue?

    I can tell you right now Id rather have a Glock 17 than a Beretta 92 if I was in a conflict.



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    #167 RyanBDawg, Feb 10, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2013
  8. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

    Yeah, when the last time Israel fought a real war, what handguns were they using?
    Uncle Sam thinks otherwise. So do I. The M9 and its civilian equivalence had been through some serious craps. Can't say the same about the Glock.
     
  9. Israel has been fighting a war since the 1940s.

    That's because Uncle Sam probably used some old school military hard-asses who refused to even consider a "plastic" gun when they were replacing the 1911 in the 1980s.

    Why would I choose a gun that has almost 2x the individual parts, is heavier, and holds (standard) less ammo? Furthermore, how many times does the average soldier even pull their sidearm in modern conflict? I'd venture to say never.

    BTW, I have the 92, don't get me wrong it's a good gun, but there is no real advantage over it compared to a Glock, especially in a conflict zone like the Middle East where sand can more easily foul the open action of the Beretta when compared to the Glock (it's happened enough to warrant an investigation by the Army).

    And like you said, the Brits have adopted it, replacing their decades old Hi-Powers..






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    #169 RyanBDawg, Feb 10, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2013
  10. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

    The last time Israel fought in a major conflict was when? They got pissant border incursions now and then but when was the last time they fought against a standing military? Could it be the Yom Kippur War?

    Plastic has nothing to do with it. The Beretta's grip panels are made out of plastic. As were the grip panels on the SIG Sauer P226 and HK P7, and Ruger P85, and SW pistols for the XM9 trials (first and second trials).

    Uncle Sam specified a hammer fired system for positive ignition, which the Glock didn't and still doesn't have. BTW, how many times have Glock had to revise their striker firing system already? Not too Glock Perfection, eh?

    Do you even remember why Glock had to revise their copper color firing mechanism to the black one in the early 1990s? Here's a hint: the spring couldn't handle the striker stay cocked for too long.

    Reliability. After all, it only passed the US Army XM9 trial twice while defeating all newcomers.

    The same sand that supposedly jammed up the M1911A1 too? The same M1911A1 that accompanied GIs through Northern Africa and the Middle-East in WWII? :rofl:

    Yeah, barely. If it were so good then how come the Brits didn't adopt it way, way back? It's not like the British Army didn't know about the existence of the Glock pistol...it's only been around 30-years.
     
    #170 fnfalman, Feb 10, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2013
  11. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

    No, Glock did not introduce "a new thought process". Everything in a Glock is based on preexisting designs.
     
  12. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

    I have served, in a war, in a mixed group that included people from the French army - commandos, Chasseurs Alpins, etc., Romanian reconnaissance (their special forces) and in the combat zone regularly encountered Georgians (at the camp across the street) and occasonally troops from Denmark and Sweden.

    Never saw a single Glock among them. I specifically talked pistols with one of the Romanian NCO's who showed me his CZ 9mm. The only Glocks I saw in Afghanistan were on contractors and U.S. law enforcement.
     
    #172 Bren, Feb 10, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2013
  13. Luxembourg is not a major military force??
     
    #173 Bruce M, Feb 10, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2013
  14. So is apple for the most part. Their successful items are based off the ipod and how it integrated with itunes

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
     
  15. Which is the brilliance of Glocks...now , I am Glock neutral...have them but they don't excite me. i carry them but don't necessarily enjoy them.

    Fire one Glock and you have fired them all. You move from model to model with very little effort. The single stack Glock makes sense ONLY if the slide is slimmed down, and I don't see that happening. Glocks are not concealment pistols, they are duty sidearm pistols.

    Ruger Nano has taken the Glock modular approach a step further by allowing you to pull out the chassis and put all the go-bang parts into another frame. Be interesting to see if this is a reasonable sales differentiator or if any true benefit is found in this.
     
  16. Again we seem to be going off course again and making this post a 1911 vs Glock. The topic is GG on the same level as JMB. The answer is hell NO and it will always be hell NO. GG couldn't shine JMB's shoes. Hell he's not even on the same level as Bill Ruger. I'll agree GG built a very nice pistol but lets not get carried away by thinking he's anywhere near on the same level as many who came before him. As mentioned in and earlier post Glock as of late is being out glocked by many of it's compeditors designs and features. This is something JMB never worried about as when he finished one gun he was on to another and many times I'm sure he worked on more than one guns design at a time. JMB designes were more for country then it was for profit. This alone will always set him apart and on a different level from the others.
     
  17. gunsmoke92

    Silver Member

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    That will require some thought.......Nope! JMB was an inventor, a designer, and an innovator. Gaston is a developer who took what others invented (tilting barrel, polymer frame, ect) and adapted them to work together in the form of the Glock pistol. In all truth, he didn't actually design the Glock, as that task was left to his employees. He merely paid for someone else to develop it and put his name on it as intellectual property of the company. Gaston did pretty well, business wise, but will never be on the same level as John M. Browning.
     
  18. NO!!! Browning invented/developed MANY different firearms & types of actions, Glock's claim to fame is the simple safe-action action & polymer frame...Herr Glock's pistol uses Browning's locked breech system as do the majority of semi auto pistols in calibers larger than 9mm Kurz or .380. When Herr G's patents on firearms comes close to the number of patents that John M Browning either held or SOLD, I MIGHT concede your point...but not until then!!!

    CB in FL...I'm not in any way denigrating Herr Glock, BTW - I LOVE his pistols, but of the two, Browning was the more prolific.
     
  19. not even close.
     

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