close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

In a Funk: Prepping and Socialism.

Discussion in 'Survival/Preparedness Forum' started by Bolster, Mar 25, 2012.


  1. Bolster

    Bolster
    Expand Collapse
    Not Ready Yet!

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    1,149
    0
    Location:
    State of Stupidity
    I thought myself into a corner the other day. It was inspired by a righteous post by Mac66 in another thread:

    I agree completely, and I got to thinking about how prepping is a classic "individualist" type of activity...in prepping, each of us cares for ourselves and our own.

    Yet with each passing day, this idea of "responsibility for self" gets pushed further to the margins of American culture. The USA is rapidly developing its own version of "Gemeinnutz geht vor Eigennutz," which was the phrase printed on Nazi coinage. It meant, "The common good trumps the individual's good." In other words, classic socialism: The group over the individual. (With a powerful, privileged, charismatic, isolated, centralized, immune, and oratorically gifted leader determining what "group good" is, of course.)

    So this got me to thinking about how .gov is keeping tabs on preppers. Some say it's so .gov knows where to grab food and water to redistribute when the S hits. Then I got to thinking about the farmers. They should be ideally situated to sustain themselves, right? But almost certainly .gov would federalize farms in a famine-type or food-shortage event.

    I would imagine well-stocked preppers would be located and shamed, re-framed as "hoarders" in a bad event, and perp-walked in front of the cameras as the evil man who would not share his food and water. (And by the way, look at all the evil guns he owns.) This evil man was "killing children, and women, and minorities" by not sharing his supplies with them, etc. We know how this media script would go, and we know what howls for justice the public would demand for this vile sin of hoarding and selfishness.

    In many threads we have these teenage-sounding pronouncements of how people are armed and able to defend themselves and their supplies against brigands. But brigands may not be the people coming for your stash-- it would likely be .gov, coming in the name of moral authority to redistribute for the good of ALL the people. And they have more armament than any of you do. (Except for maybe LongGun1. :50cal:)

    But recently I've had a new vision for where my prepping will lead: after scrimping and saving for a rainy day, I'll be the guy who the government (probably local) forces to share his bounty -- and there will be no appreciation or thanks, I will simply be the villain for not willingly opening a vein and bleeding for my fellow man.

    This has already happened financially at the fed level with the bailout. I'm the guy who saves and foregoes the pleasures of today for a better tomorrow; but the gov't bails out those who lived for the day, made the risky bets, bought houses they couldn't afford, etc. Responsible people like me (and you, I assume) get stuck with the bill. So why the heck should anybody be responsible in this society? Responsibility just means you pay the bill for the irresponsible. In a socialist society, after you wolf down your own portion, you work on voting yourself your neighbor's portion.

    So this is where I thought myself into a corner. It seems to me of little use to prepare for more than a few weeks; if I have more than that, I think it will simply be "liberated" from me, lawfully and with the weight of morality and legal authority, by my government (fed, state, or local), who will be following the demands of all the socialists out there who know they can simply and legally vote my water and food, and your water and food, to themselves.

    What's the point? :dunno:
     

    Wanna kill these ads? We can help!
    #1 Bolster, Mar 25, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2012
  2. Ethereal Killer

    Ethereal Killer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    363
    0
    YAAAY!! you've reached the point they want you at!

    See, you have no chance of winning when you play their game, so you simply step outside that artificial box they created for you and play another game entirely.

    Here's a few things for you to consider:
    -every major civilization was destroyed by itself as a result of it's policies and success.
    -You cant do anything to save "America" it's dead. Forget about it.
    -You CAN do something to effect your LOCAL or STATE politics tho (not so much cali tho).
    -You can effect your PERSONAL situation as well as that of your freinds

    With those in mind, turn your focus inward and work in the sphere you can control. the new countries are the states and counties and communities. If you shore up those resources, then what happens at the federal level doesnt matter.

    worried about the fed enforcing it's will on you? well dont. as it gets more top heavy it also gets more hollow, meaning it cant enforce it's will effectively on people who refuse to participate or fall into the cracks. SO, learn to live in the cracks, there is plenty to sustain you here, and we have cookies!

    Next thing to do is to shut off your TV. I mean just disconnect it and stop watching or listening to anything but local news. Certainly stop listening to "news commentary." It's all lies and bull meant to steer you in a certain direction. Avoid it.

    Once you do that, just wait a month and see how clearly you can think! You already have all the information you need to make decisions about your life and what you think of the government. You no longer need thier help with that. Trust me, in a short time they will sound SO absurd in the stuff they say, you will wonder why you ever listened at all.

    Once you have reached that point, things get real simple. It was all just a matter of phrasing the question correctly all along. Stop asking the questions they want you to ask and dont play the game they want you to play.

    When you can honestly understand why the presidential election is about the least pertinent thing to your life, you will be on your way to freedom again.
     

  3. eracer

    eracer
    Expand Collapse
    Where's my EBT?

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    6,711
    2
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    There are millions of freedom-loving people in this country, and very few people with the power to forcibly take that freedom away. Even fewer with the desire to do so in a disaster scenario.

    Do we need to worry about the erosion of freedom? Absolutely. But we have a remarkable system of government in this country - one that allows us to vote officials in and out of office. The problem is that most people lack the will to leave the illusion of comfort that we've been led to believe.

    The true danger in this country is apathy. The spectre of a concerted violent attack by government forces on the people (like what happened in Nazi Germany) worries me very little.

    The lack of votes for candidates who understand the precious purity of the Constitution worries me much, much more.
     
    #3 eracer, Mar 25, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2012
  4. G29Reload

    G29Reload
    Expand Collapse
    Tread Lightly

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    13,286
    362
    grab a shovel.
     
  5. blueyedmule

    blueyedmule
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    55
    0
    Location:
    Oregon
    Don't be the guy with the huge compound with razor wire around it. Be the guy nobody knows is well-situated. Focus on disappearing in plain sight, being able to walk down the street while not looking like an ad for 5.11, but being lethal underneath it all. Learn how to observe your surroundings while not looking like Tactical Joe on a clocktower. Be the guy nobody in your neighborhood would think to loot.

    Prepping has value, being less than obvious also has value. You do not want to be the guy on everyone's radar, for sure. Maybe consider some of these things.
     
  6. Dexters

    Dexters
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    4,191
    1
    Location:
    ga
    We are of the same mind - see my thread about 'There are no solutions. Deal with it!'
     
  7. Bolster

    Bolster
    Expand Collapse
    Not Ready Yet!

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    1,149
    0
    Location:
    State of Stupidity
    That is a pretty cool post, Killer, kudos. Some good thoughts there. Leaving aside how to avoid the socialist mind-games for a moment (and for the record, I already do hate TV) I still have this question:

    Do you disagree with my main point that it's possible well-stocked stashes will simply be "liberated" by the government, and the preppers themselves will be shamed for being "selfish" and possibly also perp-walked for owning "too many guns" and/or "hoarding" during a national crisis? Since the well-worn formula is that we must hate them for moral transgressions to justify stealing from them, do you disagree that preppers are ready-made villains for socialists?

    Preppers are sort of like TV-dinners for socialists. Prepper's done all the work, all the socialist has to do is heat (ie, vote) and eat.

    (OpSec is all well and good, but any of us posting here are already known entities to .gov)

    This is one of my dark fears. I think it every once in awhile, then shove it out of my mind. I'm not where you are yet, but the idea has occurred.

    Sort of: "Once I abandoned all hope, I felt better."
     
    #7 Bolster, Mar 25, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2012
  8. arclight610

    arclight610
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009
    3,038
    0
    Sometimes doing the right thing means being the underdog, and facing hardship and ridicule. During the Revolution, there were more loyalists than patriots. The unaware people of today who think the government is too big to be opposed, are modern day loyalists. It's not easy staying free.
     
  9. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade
    Expand Collapse
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2003
    14,734
    1,950
    Your "well-stocked" isn't even a drop in the bucket. This whole thing comes across as a persecution complex; the government doesn't know who you are, nor will it waste its time with the 1,000 meals you have stashed. Really, you're just not that important.
     
  10. Dexters

    Dexters
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    4,191
    1
    Location:
    ga
    They take over the mean of production - farms and factories.

    Preppers as you describe them, have but don't produce.
     
    #10 Dexters, Mar 25, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2012
  11. Bolster

    Bolster
    Expand Collapse
    Not Ready Yet!

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    1,149
    0
    Location:
    State of Stupidity
    I guess you haven't been reading / don't believe the other threads on this topic? The government is force feeding cookies to those who visit prepper websites; the consensus is that they do know who we are. I tend to believe the latter, you may not, but OK.

    Do you honestly think a well-stocked prepper would be ignored by the government (at whatever level, likely local) if 100 of his neighbors were going hungry? Do you think a fed order to "round up grub and water" would not filter down to the local level?

    What about farms, the "ultimate" preppers? Do you think they'd not be commandeered?

    I don't think dismissing this as a "complex" resolves the issue in any way.
     
    #11 Bolster, Mar 25, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2012
  12. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade
    Expand Collapse
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2003
    14,734
    1,950
    No, it's describing behavior. There is no issue as you envision it.

    Do the math. Figure out how many battalions you need to secure the farm belt. While you're deploying those across a couple of time zones to wrap up these farms, tell me who's locking down the population centers. Now tell me where those battalions are coming from. Neither math nor logistics lie, and neither fits your vision.

    More math: Joe has a year's supply of food. There are 400 people living in that one high rise yonder. How long can the .gov feed the apartment dwellers using Joe's food? How many Joes do we need to feed a city for a year? Why should the .gov throw resources at that drop in the bucket?

    Fact is, your preps are insignificant on the scale of 330,000,000 people, most of whom live a thousand miles or more from the source.
     
  13. Bolster

    Bolster
    Expand Collapse
    Not Ready Yet!

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    1,149
    0
    Location:
    State of Stupidity
    Facts and statistics may (?) not lie but they're not necessarily favoring your argument, either.

    Your argument seems to be based on Obama coming after MY preps, from federal level down to me. I'm not talking about just myself or my preps. I see local law enforcement spreading throughout the countryside and neighborhoods, commandeering what they can for the common good. They will be supplemented by deputized citizens (what are those numbers?). Taking gen-sets to the local gymnasium, finding stashes of food, scooping up power tools with functional batteries, liberating running automobiles, or whatever the order is.

    Everybody suffers equally. All for the greater good. We all go hungry together. (= Socialism.)

    You'd hardly need battalions to grab the food from farms. A couple gov't commandeered semis roll up, "requests" whatever you've got, loads up and rolls out. Heck the newscasters could handle it using shame alone, no force needed. "Farmer Joe gave us 400 gallons of Milk but Farmer Jim is hoarding his. Please fill out this poll: Do you believe that Farmer Jim should hoard milk to himself when women, children, and minorities are dying for a lack of milk? Here is his address..."

    Local community volunteers knocking on doors, "What have you got to lend to the effort to keep us all alive? Can I come inside and talk? And look around? See your garage, attic? If you say no I'll have officer Bob come talk to you." It will all come smilingly and with whipped cream on top. A team effort. They'll work the moral angle like crazy. Billboards encouraging you give it up, to share, to be content with "your fair share." etc. We've seen it before.

    My preps may not be significant to 330 million, but they would be significant to the 33 or 330 locals. Remember, socialism acts locally and thinks globally. Now multiply that across the nation.

    Anyway, I get your position, and I realize you have a different view, so OK, gotcha. Moving on.
     
    #13 Bolster, Mar 25, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2012
  14. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade
    Expand Collapse
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2003
    14,734
    1,950
    Like I said: not name-calling, but behavior-describing. I suppose some would rather feel persecuted than ignored.

    Best wishes. :wavey:
     
  15. thesurefire

    thesurefire
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2006
    133
    2
    Location:
    Colorado
    This is how I feel about it. Lets say I prepped for 2 people for a year. Thats about 2200 meals. I live in a city of around 100k people. That means all my preps could feed 2% of my city for 1 meal.

    Clearly that figure is useless in the grand scheme of things. Think of the energy to send 8 people to secure my preps. It just doesn't make sense.

    Maybe you should be worried if you have 100 years of food stocked for a crew of 200 people, but at normal family levels there just isn't any benefit for the .gov to steal your stuff.

    Yes its weird that the .gov tracks preppers, but I'll have to be honest I see more nutcases on survival boards than in real life, and I even consider myself a preppers, there's just something a little bit worrisome about how irrationally scared some people are.

    Honestly I think the nuts that post on forums saying "I'll just take what I need, I dont need to prep" are much more dangerous to me than the government.
     
  16. thesurefire

    thesurefire
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2006
    133
    2
    Location:
    Colorado
    You really think people are going to jump on that bandwagon when after the first day "they" form "raiding parties" and one out of three of them doesnt come back? How many do you think will show up for day 2? Why do you think preppers put such an emphasis on guns and ammo? body armor? night vision?
     
  17. quake

    quake
    Expand Collapse
    Millennium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 1999
    4,105
    59
    Location:
    Arkansas, USA
    Then "be officer Bob". I've said it here many times, but - "grey man" approach notwithstanding - the more 'interesting' things get, the more important it may be to be KNOWN in the area as one of the good guys. Volunteer with your local PD, sheriff's dept, whatever. Be a reserve deputy, volunteer to be a firearms trainer, heck volunteer to be a dept chaplain or volunteer fireman; but the fact is that "officer Bob" treats 'his' people different than he does the population at large. May be 'wrong', may be frustrating, may even be illogical, but it's true. In some larger metropolitan areas this may not be a realistic (or at least easy) thing to do, but imo it's worth doing as much as you can in this regard.

    Think of it from officer Bob's point view. When he shows up in your driveway, would you rather he sees you as a stranger that he has no previous interaction with; a stranger who may or may not be rational and/or dangerous? Or would you rather he see you as the volunteer who helped direct traffic for him last week, or see you as the dept chaplain who he's seen taking care of kids whose parents just got carted off, or see you as the guy who's helped new recruits learn to shoot respectably...?

    The grey man thing makes sense in some cases and to some degree, but the grey man is an inherently unknown quantity; and there are absolutely times where it's much better to be a "known good guy" than to be an unknown quantity.
     
  18. Bolster

    Bolster
    Expand Collapse
    Not Ready Yet!

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    1,149
    0
    Location:
    State of Stupidity
    Well Quake, that's the conclusion I keep coming to...the person who has the best chance of living through the next serious event is, indeed, Officer Bob (and Sargent Jim, etc)--provided they weren't ordered to storm the burning building, or defuse the bomb, etc. Not to say LEO and .mil don't face their own dangers, they obviously do. But survival wise, if there's not an imminent external threat (think famine, not invasion), then they've got an advantage, too.

    In this particular funk I'm in (and I appreciate all those who are trying to get me out of it!) I keep thinking that those who are WITH and FOR .gov will be in the best shape of all, in a socialist environment. They have a recognized clan they belong to, whose unspoken rule #1 is preservation of their group. They have been given moral authority. They are trained and well armed. And they are tasked with the "common good," not your individual good. And that is a conclusion I do not particularly enjoy reaching. As Etherial would say, "Now they're in your head, and they've got you thinking what they want you to think: Join the collective or surrender to the collective."

    :steamed:
     
    #18 Bolster, Mar 25, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2012
  19. blueyedmule

    blueyedmule
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    55
    0
    Location:
    Oregon
    In my parents' home town of 1200 I'd be happy to be known. In this valley of a quarter million I'm not so sure I do; however, having an 'in' with the local LEO isn't a bad idea. Being connected on the other side of the Blue Line is an option. It's always good to have friends. A friend of mine is considering joining the Oregon militia--not Guard/Reserve, we have another layer of military that is solely under the Governor's command. I think our state is unique in that regard.
     
  20. lawman800

    lawman800
    Expand Collapse
    Juris Glocktor

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    38,378
    15
    Location:
    Out the frying pan & into the fire!
    I don't think the feds might get to this level as much as the socialist CA government will and the LA city government will... they might be the ones with their celebrity friends pushing us with their pleas to give it up for the common good.