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Discussion in '10mm Reloading Forum' started by MCNETT, Aug 25, 2003.
Use this thread for posting IMR powder data.
Sunny afternoon 65F 5000ft. Sounds like a good time to bring out my summer CCW. I ran some bullets over the chrono today, here is how it shook out. This is from my stock G29
All handloads are 1.26"OAL CCI LP MAG primers avg. 5 shots use caution PLEASE!
180XTP 10.8 800X - 1263fps
135 Nosler JHP 13.5 800X - 1543fps
135 Nosler JHP 14.5 800X - 1596fps
220 West Coast FP 9.0 800X - 1093fps
PLEASE drop all of my loads by 2.0gr and work up in .5gr increments until pressure signs raise their ugly head, then back off by .5gr! Hope this helps.
here are a couple of the results from the 10"T/C:
AVG 10 shots Starline cases, CCI 350, 1.26" OAL
135gr Nosler 14.5gr 800X- 2022fps 42,000psi
10.0gr 800X 200XTP - 1552fps 38,500psi
SAAMI max is now 37,500psi.
This outing was a whole lot of fun, with the 10"bbl I can get .44mag ballistics from my 10mm! The 135 EXPLODES milk jugs at that speed!
7.7 800-x/ Precision 220: 1143fps
same WC: 1133fps
8.2 800-x/ Precision 220: 1181fps
same WC: 1160
The 800x loads were like heavy .40 loads, nice shooting. 8.2 800x shot the best group at 25yds 1.3" bench rest. All velocities are an avg. of 5 shots over my chrono. The temp was 30f and elevation was 5800ft. OAL was 1.26".
I have info on other loads that I tried if anyone is interested.
WC= West Coast 220, PB= Precision Bullet.
All loads use CCI 350 primers and 1.26" OAL
9.0gr 800X WC220 - 1144fps from my G20 40F
9.5gr 800X PB220 - 1237fps G20 40F
9.5gr 800X PB220 - 1329fps 6"KKM 40F
9.0gr 800X WC220 - 1098fps G29 65F
Do you have any data with 155 gr bullets?
1.26" OAL CCI 350 primers
155gr GDHP 10.2gr 800X - 1356fps (6"KKM)
155gr GDHP 12.3gr 800X - 1465fps (G20), 1578fps (6"KKM)
These are the most accurate loads that I developed with 800X.
Thanks, Mike! I appreciate the help.
I got a little lost digging through the loads/guns/bullet weights, etc...
So, I put together a summary spreadsheet of the 800X loads listed in the posts above. Please forgive me if I have a typo.
Thanks Spongeman66....I was just getting ready to create one of my own, but you beat me to it.
A little extra observation about 800-X loads to suplement Mr. McNett's good work:
In used Winchester and Federal brass, my G-29 will not Glocksmile (ruin the brass) if the powder charge energy is 675 fLbs or less.
With new Winchester brass, it requires 775 fLbs of energy to Glocksmile the brass.
Grip reduction: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13213462#post13213462
Training and Targets: www.glockfaq.com www.sportshooter.com www.mytargets.com www.tackdriver.com Be sure to explore the links!
I like full throttle loads. Thanks to Mike McNett who found horsepower to spare with 800-X.
Still, I think loads should be taylored for barrel length. Often a faster powder optimizes a shorter barrel for all around performance.
Consider Mike's 135gr. JHP, 14.5gr 800-X load:
10" barrel, 2022 f/s, 1225 fLbs, PF273, 42 kpsi
5" barrel, 1670 f/s, 836 fLbs, PF 225, 33.1 kpsi per Hodgdon Manual
3.8" barrel, 1596 f/s, 763 fLbs, PF 215, G-29 length.
Clearly slow burning 800-X is efficient in long barrels as presure is increasing with barrel length.
There is a fixed amount of energy in each grain of 800-X. That energy can be computed referencing bullet weight and velocity. If 14.5 gr 800-X completely burns in a 10" barrel, then 462 fLbs of energy is detrimentally expended just beyound a G-29 muzzel. (Blast, flash, soot, smoke, increased perceived recoil (rocket exhaust), and sometimes bullet upset.)
In theory, 9.13gr 800-X within a shortend OAL cartrige will perform similarly to the posted load. (Don't try this at home - much shorter than a 40SW.) That is 5.47gr 800-X wasted, 38% of the 14.5gr charge weight.
You can see why www.imrpowder.com data for 800-X is so low presure, since their technicians are concerned that most of the powder burns.
All factory loads are subject to the same analysis. I am still searching for the best over all G-29 loads.
Slower moving, heavier bullets are often more efficient in short barrels. Heavier bullets are under presure for a relatively longer time inside any barrel than lighter faster velocity bullets.
If a MAXIMUM power faster burning powder can't be found, a lower charge of a slower burning powder with a more powerfull primer may be the answer for short barreled pistols.
Too bad Glock striker mechanisms are so light and weak. Rifle primers have some potential for 10mm maximum loads.
We need to have Starline produce 10mm brass with an extended and reinforced web and a rifle primer pocket.
What is considered a Hot load (fps?)... I am using a standard G20. Right now I am reloading with 800x and love it. I don't have a chrono but would like to work with some hotter loads. I am using Rainear and Berrys 180gr and 200gr... mostly 180 gr. Also what is the most efficient load you have found? Right now I am using 7.7gr on 180gr RS Berrys and feels like a standard .40 round.
Velocity does not determine a "Hot" load.
Presure in excess of SAAMI standards is technically a +P(resure) load. SAAMI does not establish a +P level for all cartridges. The increased presure level is on the order of 10% on the cartridges I have researched. I have never seen SAAMI +P+ presure standard data.
For a politically correct interpretation of +P loads, call 1-800-IMRDATA or any of the Powder/Bullet manufacturers tech hot lines to get the company line.
I can tell you from my imprecise, small sample, with assumption about powder burn rate, mathematical investigation of one large manufacturers +P and +P+ loads: +P is less than 7% increase in powder charge over SAAMI max. +P+ is less than 12% increase in powder charge over SAAMI max. Many handloaders push the envelope further than factory loads.
McNetts loads are the top of the heap in velocity, power, and momentum. They are not +P loads generally, though his 180gr BJHP 10.8gr 800-X is.
For those of you using Beatooth WFN 200gr. bullets:
With each load, you should drop 1gr and work up:
Starline brass CCI 350primers 1.26"OAL
10.0gr 800X - 1380fps 6"KKM
10.0gr 800X - 1272fps G20
Either of these loads should make an excellent hog bullet.
first time glocktalker, soon to be first time handloader.
thanks for all this info.
Can I use HDY 155 in place of the GDHP ?
Took out the new CED Millennium Chronograph today to run some new loads through it. I was working with some loads that Mcnett gave me for hogs. These were done in Miami at sea level about 83F. 5 Shot averages
G20 6"KKM: 22lb Recoil Spring and Stainless Guide Rod
200Gr Beartooth Gas Checked Flat Points
CCI 350 LP Mag Primers - firm taper crimp
9.0gr 800X 200 BTFP - 1264fps-709ft/lbs
9.3gr 800X 200 BTFP - 1293fps-742ft/lbs
9.6gr 800X 200 BTFP - 1327fps-782ft/lbs
9.8gr 800X 200 BTFP - 1370fps-833ft/lbs
10.0gr 800X 200 BTFP - 1393fps-862ft/lbs
Just thought I would share a really good load with yall. I have been shooting my Glock 20 (stock barrel) with a Montana Gold 180 FMJ TC with 8.7 grains of IMR 800-X seated at 1.260". That is one accurate paper killer;f.
Velocity is 1210 FPS at 30,000 PSI. That is on the light side. This was pulled from my load book (Modern Reloading by Richard Lee 2nd Edition) if you want to look.
25 yards free hand no wind 10 round 2.5" groups ~2
Has anone chrono'd 200 g, XTPs over 10.0g of 800x in G20 or G29 with standard length barrels?
I got 1215 FPS Average in my G20, and 1300 FPS from my Jarvis 6".
I loaded some, but haven't had a chance to chrono because I shot one of my chrono screens with my S&W 360 Ti (squirrelly little bastard will not be replacing my G27 for front pocket carry)and haven't gotten around to ordering a new one yet.
I'm thinking this may be a good winter time carry load in G29 (KKM) and G20 (Barstow), however I need to get to the range first and do some shooting with it.
Does 800x have a lot of flash!? I may want to try some low-flash powder instead for (god forbid) night time work.