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I'm about to add to the collection . . . need advice!

Discussion in 'The 10 Ring' started by 21Carrier, Nov 14, 2011.

  1. 21Carrier

    21Carrier Until I Gota 29

    Feb 4, 2011
    Hoover, AL
    Hey guys! I'm not dead, I swear. Though I do feel like a zombie some days. However, all my hard work has payed off, and I'm about to welcome a new member into the family. However, today I saw an old "fling", and now my mind is no longer made up. There has been a S&W 1076 sitting at a local pawn shop for months, but the guys there want $900 for it, WAYYYY too much. They have thought it was an FBI gun. I emailed S&W about its FBIness, and got a slightly nebulous answer in the negative. Regardless of the answer's vagueness, it was clearly enough to shake the pawn shop guy's blind faith that they had an FBI gun. They are beginning to entertain the idea that I'm right about it not being an FBI gun. However, all parties are now aware that the only REAL way to know for sure is a $50 history letter from S&W. They don't want to pay $50, and I don't want to do it, just to have them decide to not sell me the gun for a realistic price. The good thing is that pawn shop guys are like dogs, and some cash in their face will make them drool. I'm thinking $600 might do the trick given the new doubts about the gun's origins.

    Well, I was so sure about it. I was gonna try my best to get the 1076, and if it fell through, I'd go get a G33 or G26 for ankle carry at work. The G29 is kind of heavy in my boot (you read that right). Well, today I went to check out a local gun shop that just moved into an old grocery store building. They tripled in size, and opened a new indoor range. I remembered they had a used, new production Colt Delta Elite a few months back, and decided to check on it. It was still there. But next to it was a NEW, new production CDE, for $75 LESS!!!. I think the prices got mixed up during the move, because the used one used to be $975, but now it's $1050, and the new one is $975. I've always been a sucker for Deltas, and that seems like a good price for a new one. So, I'm torn.

    What should I do? Obviously, this gun will be a shooter. I have no use for a safe queen. I'm thinking I'll try to get the S&W first, since it's the harder to find gun, and if they won't budge on the price, I'll buy the Delta. Choices. What say you, old 10mm faithful?
  2. TreyG-20

    TreyG-20 Second2None

    I'm a firm believer in layaway see if they offer it. it makes buying things alot less difficult in financial situations

  3. 21Carrier

    21Carrier Until I Gota 29

    Feb 4, 2011
    Hoover, AL
    The pawn shop will do layaway, but the only way I'm gonna get that 1076 at a price worth paying is with cash. If I go in there wanting to do layaway, they will want me to pay the full $899, and that's just CRAZY money for a non-FBI 1076. I'm not sure about the other place (with the Delta). I have the money to buy either one, it's just that I refuse to pay $900 for a gun worth 2/3 that. If the place with the Delta does layaway, and the pawn shop will drop on their price, I might have to buy the 1076, and put the Delta on layaway. That would be ideal.

    It's not so much about not having the money, but rather just not getting screwed. The 1076 is just heavily overpriced.
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2011
  4. G29SF


    Oct 24, 2011
    Highland, IL
    I don't know if it is a guarantee, however I have read in my own research that the FBI 1076s have verbiage on them that state the gun will fire without a magazine installed. I believe I read this was an FBI requirement. The non-FBI 1076s I belive do not have that verbiage because they will NOT fire without the magazine installed.

    Might be a good place to start without paying for the S&W letter...
  5. ColGlocker


    Sep 25, 2011
    Here is some additional information found by Googling "fbi S&W 1076 model vs non-fbi"

    The 4.25" barreled 1076 was the gun chosen by the FBI as it's standard issue gun for the 10mm Auto cartridge. The F.B.I. guns differ from civilian 1076s in that they were not equipped with the standard S&W magazine-disconect and are so marked. They also wore what is often refered to the "humpback" or "palmswell" grips. 1076s without the magazine-disconnect bring a premium on the collectors' market.

    Here is the web site where I found the information:

    Good luck with your search.

    Edit: I have been thinking. If the reason the pawnshop is asking the high price is because of their claim of it being an FBI gun, then it might be worth your $50 to get it confirmed by S&W. If it is an FBI gun, then you have documentation showing it is, in the event you choose to sell the gun down the road. If it is not an FBI gun, it might give you leverage to push the price of the gun down.

    Edit: From another forum, I found: I have both, 1076 FBI and the regular 1076. I carry the standard model. Yes, 100 bucks more is no big deal. Honestly I can't see or feel any difference between the two versions. The FBI model will fire with magazine removed and the front of the grip panel is cross checked pattern. My FBI has tritium night sights although dim. They continue to say the standard version can be converted to behave/look like the FBI version. Only way is to get letter from S&W.
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2011
  6. TreyG-20

    TreyG-20 Second2None

    The only reason I stated it was because if they both did which they don't then you would be able to get both. I have no clue if the 1076 is FBi related but I'll see what I can find out through some Internet research for you. I'm pretty bored here this afternoon and wouldn't mind know what and if there are some ways to tell.
  7. 21Carrier

    21Carrier Until I Gota 29

    Feb 4, 2011
    Hoover, AL
    Thanks guys. I have already done months worth of internet research. Here's the deal on the 1076s. There are ONLY two ways to truly confirm whether or not a 1076 is an FBI gun. One, you get a letter from the S&W historian confirming it (which is $50). Two, the gun comes with the original box (with matching serial number) that has the FBI or FBI Academy sticker on it. Beyond that, there's no way to tell. There are many documented cases of non-FBI guns with IDENTICAL features to confirmed FBI guns. This occurred because many agencies wanted 1076s that were "FBI spec". So, they ordered their guns with the same FBI features.

    Here's an incomplete and possibly inaccurate list of what MOST FBI guns should have:
    -Palm swell grip (though some have the others)
    -No magazine disconnect (can fire w/o magazine)
    -Marked with "capable of firing w/o magazine" on slide
    -Checkering, horizontal, or vertical lines on front strap
    -Novak night sights
    -Has a serial prefix of: TEU, TEV, TFE, TFF, TFH, TFK, TFL, TFN, TFP, TFX, THB, THC (rumor abounds that the THC guns were special ordered for the DEA)

    There are many other "FBI features", but those are the few I remember off the top of my head. There's a GREAT thread about this in the S&W Forum. Just search for 1076, and look for the thread with like 50,000 views. I am 99.99% sure this gun is NOT an FBI gun. First of all, the serial number is not within any of the confirmed FBI runs. However, it's not too far off (I think it's a THD). Second, as I said above, I sent S&W an email, and here's what the guy said:

    "Mr. Boogaerts I checked the serial number and it does not give me any indication of this gun being an FBI gun."

    While that's not a simple "NO", it's pretty cut and dry. However, I have tried to be very honest with the pawn guys, and explained that the ONLY way to confirm the gun's origin was to get a letter (since there's no box). They won't invest the $50, and I don't want to for two reasons. One, if it is NOT an FBI gun, they might just say, "Sorry, were gonna wait for some moron to just take our word for it, and buy it for $900." Second, if it IS an FBI gun, it's worth more than $900, and that's gonna price it out of my budget. Besides, I want a shooter, not a collector. An FBI gun would be a collector.

    I tried to talk some sense into the guys, and tell them that their price was ridiculous. It's too high for a non-FBI gun, and too low for an FBI gun. I tried to tell them that they will make lots more money if it turns out to be an FBI gun, so the $50 is no big deal. No dice. I also tried this line. I said, "If I walked in to pawn this gun (that's usually worth about $500-600), and said it's an FBI gun, and that makes it worth $900. Would you guys just take my word for it, with no documentation?" Of course, he said, "no." So, I said, "then why should I just take your word for it? As the retailer, it's YOUR job to prove your claim of rarity before you expect me to pay that premium." This didn't impress him much. Also, I have repeatedly told him I have no interest if it IS an FBI gun. I'm just gonna go with the whole "money talks, and BS walks" idea, and just show them some cash. It's been there a while, so I'm hoping they will jump on it.
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2011
  8. Jitterbug


    Aug 27, 2002
    Sounds like your hard earned cash is burning a hole in your pocket 21....

    You mentioned a G26, because you needed a small carry gun. The G26/27 is a wonderful gun, but I found it a bit large, no way I could carry it in my pocket, plus safety issues for pocket carry with a G26/27, at least for me. My aluminum framed Compact 1911 was comparable with my old G27 for carry purposes, but much, much thinner, so the 1911 always won out. The G27 was my throw in a pack with an empty chamber gun that I didn't mind if it got banged up, can't bang up a Glock right?

    For all the time carry, go anywhere gun in 9mm I recommend and carry a Kahr PM9, mine has a laser and night sites and pretty much goes with me everywhere, that is unless I'm carrying one of my 1911's.

    Most of the time it's in my pocket in a DeSantis Nemesis, but occasionally I'll carry it on my hip in a Mitch Rosen OWB holster, very comfortable. I can comfortable carry this little gun all day long, anywhere in any type of dress from suit to jeans to summer time shorts.

    The wife and I both carry PM9's, pricey but very nice little pistols that can be relied upon once thoroughly broken in. Occasionally I'll carry a S&W 442, just for nostalgia sake or as a spare if one of the Kahr's breaks or needs service...mine broke a mag release after 7 years and many thousands of rounds, $15 part and back in service within a 10 days...and the new part is all metal, as it is on the new models, whereas the old one was plastic with a metal insert. Otherwise change out the recoil spring every thousand rounds or so and go....

    It carry's about the same, but 6+1 of 147 gr. Gold Dot beats 5 rounds of 135 gr. Gold Dot out of the 442, not to mention the fast 7 round mag reload, better handling, recoil characteristics and suburb accuracy of the Kahr, kind of like a minny target pistol. Those little guns can really shoot with high precision.

    FBI 1076, I'm too lazy to Google, but if I remember right that's a DA only isn't it? I like the 10** series Smith's and owned a 1006 which was my first 10mm, fine pistol, but man that trigger left a lot to be desired. One reason I love 1911's, a good one will spoil you in the trigger department.

    I confess to being a trigger snob and I had the trigger worked over on my 1006, but it wasn't right. Unfortunately the gun was stolen in broad daylight in a nice part of town when some scumbag smashed out the window and rumaged through my truck, before I could find a another Gunsmith to work it over.

    But, the trigger and the overall mass was the low point for me with the Smith. DA only...???. I'm not sure. Do you want some kind of collector or a shooter?

    The above mentioned Kahr is a DA type of gun but the trigger is very long and very, very smooth.

    If it were me and I wanted another Smith 10** I'd shop for a 1006 and give that trigger another go.

    Cash is king my friend, don't even think of layaway unless it's something special. If you want that 1076 then save until you have what YOU think it's worth based on your own research and go in and plunk it down, short about $75 or so, and tell them here you go, take it or leave it...leaving the $75 in your pocket for wiggle room. From whats been contributed to this thread, I'd have to say it ain't no FBI gun.

    Other options, the NIB recent production Delta is no doubt a fine pistol, but...for another couple or few hundred or so you can find a used Dan Wesson, which will have most of the modifications you'll end up wanting on a 1911. I'd recommend a 2008 or later model because these have the ramped barrels, and I'd confirm this with the seller.

    With the Colt, well it's a Colt and a 2011 model at that. And if you don't mind sinking cash in it over the years, you will wind up with a very fine pistol with all the nostalgia of being a 100 year anniversary model of the finest pistol ever made...but in 10mm. If it were me, I wouldn't be the least bit concerned about modifying it, probably because it would be a lifetime keeper/shooter for me.

    The Dan Wesson will be a shooter, about as good as it gets in my mind and Dan Wesson service is excellent if and when it's needed. It might take awhile for one to pop up, just be patient and continue saving your hard earned bucks.

    I'd hang onto the Glock, a gun guy needs more then one gun.

    Gunbroker or one of the auction sites is your friend, just use common sense in your purchase and only do business with those who have a verifiable good record.

    That's my lengthy two cents...good luck. I'm looking forward to whatever you purchase because I know you'll ring the heck out of it and tell us all about it.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2011
  9. Had a Smith 4046. The double action trigger was no Glock trigger, but was manageable with practice. The gun was built like a tank and I wish I still had it.

    That having been said, I am looking hard into a Delta if my FFL can find one for me. I am considering selling (one) of my Combat Commanders if I have to in order to make it a reality.

    I think you would enjoy the Delta. The Colt trigger can't be beat (in my opinion) and that sounds like a high price for a Smith.

    Good luck deciding!
  10. _The_Shadow

    _The_Shadow Ret. Fireman

    Jul 23, 2007
    Southeast, LoUiSiAna
    Carrier, Does it have extra magazines for the gun? I believe the FBI guns had 3 magazines. I would buy the 1076 for $800 if it came with the 3 magazines and all the box and papers correct to the pistol, not a penny more if it doesn't have the Roy Jinks S&W letter to authicate the pistol!. BTW they do have people who fake those lables as the sell blank lables and boxes all the time on some of the forums.

    Good luck!
  11. Kegs

    Kegs Ol 8 fingers ;)

    Oct 26, 2009
    Cold side of conus
    If I would even think about getting a 1076, it would require the checkering on the front strap.

    ...but since I don't need any other pistol than my 29, I'm actually happier that I don't need to make any such requirements. :supergrin: :wavey:
  12. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

    Jul 26, 2002

    Amigo. I think you just hit on a plan here in "blue." Personally, that is what ai would do, and I think you should stick to that plan. ;)

    I too am a Delta fan, as I carry a M1911 EDC mostly. I flop around to a G36, and a G29 at times, but I love the 1911 platform.

    Again. I think you are showing sound wisdom with what you said in the blue highlight .

    Good luck bud.

  13. Wolf Spyder

    Wolf Spyder Gun Activist

    May 26, 2002
    Central Ohio
    21Carrier, buy the Colt Delta Elite !! The gun that saved the 10mm... I would buy the new Colt before they figure out what they have done in miss marking the price. Think about it, buying a Colt Delta Elite on the 100th Anniversary of the M1911. :wavey:

    Buy it !! Buy it, just because I want one... and I can live vicariously through your experiences... :rofl:

  14. Reboot


    Sep 13, 2011
    I have no advice for you but I can at least give you my opinion. I've looked at the S&W 1076 and it honestly doesn't appeal to me all that much. If you were purchasing it as a collectible then okay but otherwise *I* just can't get into it much at all.

    Now the Delta Elite is a different story. I'm partial to 1911s and if you can get a new Delta Elite for the price of the older model then I'd say go for the DE. I'd love to add one to my collection at some point in time but for now I'm very happy with my G20SF.

    But it sounds like you're "jonesing" for the 1076 and if that's what you really want then I say get that one *IF* you can get it for a fair price. If you buy the DE now then you'll probably kick yourself for years to come since you "could have had that 1076 back in late 2011". Okay, maybe that's a little bit of advice there. It's clear you want it.

    Good luck. I'd love to have this problem. LOL.
  15. arushus

    arushus Biggest Member

    Jul 22, 2011
    NE Oklahoma
    My opinion is pretty well in line with Reboot's. Id rather have a CDE, but Im not you and since the 1076's are no longer made there are fewer and fewer of them to be had...
  16. Not really relevant to this discussion, but I just dropped the bomb on the wife when she asked what I wanted for Christmas....$$ toward a Delta Elite.

    Her answer: "For what?" :rofl:
  17. Jitterbug


    Aug 27, 2002
    Problem with wives is that they think one gun is enough, mine thinks that way even though she has three her self...

    Now she want's to learn how to shoot the 1911's...I can hardly wait.

    Or course I told her she really should have a 9mm Commander. Which of course I'll have to borrow for testing purposes....
  18. Lol..
  19. arushus

    arushus Biggest Member

    Jul 22, 2011
    NE Oklahoma
    You had better run at least 1000 rounds through it before she shoots it just to make sure it is completely safe for her to shoot. And then you are going to need to run maybe 100 rounds a week from then on through it to make sure it stays safe for her. Just make sure she knows youre only doing this for her own good, cuz you love her sooo much and would hate to see something happen to her because of a faulty gun...
  20. 21Carrier

    21Carrier Until I Gota 29

    Feb 4, 2011
    Hoover, AL
    You have no idea! I've wanted that 1076 and or a Delta Elite for so long, and I finally have the money for at least one of them.

    The 1076 is a DA/SA gun, very similar to a Sig. The 1046/1086 were the DA only models. The 1076 has a spurless hammer, and a Sig-style, frame-mounted decocker. The DA pull is pretty heavy, but gets better at "half-cock" or after dropping the hammer with the decocker. The SA pull is actually pretty good, especially considering this gun is NASTY and dry.

    That's exactly what I'll do. I'm going to start with $550-600, and MAYBE go up to $700. I'm also going to let them know that if our deal falls through, I'll be driving very quickly to the other shop to buy the Delta. About the Delta, I just want the thing. I know that it's not the best 1911, but it's a Colt, it's brand new, and it's 10mm. All of that makes me like it. Plus, it looks good to me. I didn't even think about buying it in 2011. What will likely happen is that I'll be buying it in early 2012. Hopefully I'll get the 1076, then get the Delta for my birthday next year. I don't think the Delta is going anywhere.

    The Glocks aren't going anywhere. They are my favorites, and likely always will be. I have a hard time imagining a scenario in which I would sell ANY gun. About the G26/33 vs. the Kahr PM9, that's a good suggestion. I want a better "at work" carry pistol. I immediately thought of the G33 in an ankle holster, but didn't think of a PM9 in my pocket. That would be another good option. But for now, I want another 10mm.

    Actually, yes. It comes with 3 magazines, but that means nothing to me. It's a nice perk, but they are available at MidwayUSA for around $35. When I go in to buy it, I'm going to go in with the attitude that it's absolutely not an FBI gun, and they are just being ridiculous to even think it is without documentation. BTW, there's no box or paperwork, just the gun and 3 magazines.

    It has the checkering on the front strap.

    Thanks. I am hoping it will work. The exciting part is that I really can't go wrong. Either way, I'll come home with a 10mm that I have wanted for a long time.

    Even if I get the Smith right now, I would be SHOCKED if that Delta sells. The other one (the used one) has been there for about 6 months or more, and it looks brand new, and wasn't over priced. I don't think anybody knows what it is. Even if they like how it looks, I'm sure 99.9% get turned off when they hear it's 10mm. Also, the guy at the store didn't even know it was 10mm. He told me the NEW one was 10mm, but the old one was .45ACP. Hopefully, I'll have both in not too long. Here are some pics of the 1076. I forgot to take some of the Delta:



    It needs some SERIOUS TLC



    Last edited: Nov 17, 2011