close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

If you're Dishonorably or OTH discharged from the military...

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by airmotive, Aug 6, 2012.

  1. airmotive

    airmotive Tin Kicker

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Messages:
    8,702
    Likes Received:
    1,426
    Location:
    Debris Field
    ...are you still a 'veteran'?

    Most of the major news outlets are referring to that Wisconsin shooter as an OTH-discharged 'veteran'.

    Is a veteran someone who has simply served in the .mil, or is there a requirement to be honorably discharged?

    Is there a legal definition of the term?
     
  2. LoadToadBoss

    LoadToadBoss IYAAYWOT

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2008
    Messages:
    3,498
    Likes Received:
    96
    Location:
    Northwest Louisiana
    Technically, yes. However, such individual will not meet the definition of veteran as it relates to qualifications for certain veteran-related benefits or job placement preferences.
     

  3. RustyShackelford

    RustyShackelford > OD Glock 32

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2008
    Messages:
    4,431
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    46148
    Agree with LTB, above, but is there also a difference between 'OTH discharge' and 'General (under honorable conditions)'?
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2012
  4. Patchman

    Patchman Florist

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    17,318
    Likes Received:
    2,544
    Location:
    Land of Flora, Fauna & Merriweather
    I think the common usage of the word "veteran" (as used by newspaper, etc...) means he/she served. The same paper/media might then clarify that he/she was dishonorably discharged/OTH discharge. But that information is usually buried in the middle somewhere.
     
  5. byf43

    byf43 NRA Life Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    11,880
    Likes Received:
    505
    Location:
    Southern Maryland
    Interesting.

    A (former) friend of mine enlisted in the Marine Corps the day after we graduated from High School. (1972.)
    He had gotten his draft notice (Army) in the mail, the day we graduated.

    He went to Viet Nam, then went 'over the wall' about 6 months into his tour.

    He was 'found' at his Mom's house (2 years later!), by the Provost Marshal.
    He was dishonorably discharged after a stint in prison.


    He has no veteran status and (from what I understand) can't say that he is a veteran.

    All of this was told to me, by his brother.
     
  6. HerrGlock

    HerrGlock Scouts Out CLM

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2000
    Messages:
    23,796
    Likes Received:
    203
    Didn't finish his initial contract. That's a common one. About the only way you can get around that one is medical discharge, can't think of any other offhand that would allow vet status without initial contract.
     
  7. PettyOfficer

    PettyOfficer

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,009
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    The stolen valor act was shot down by SCOTUS, protecting free speech. If a schmuck can lie and say he's a MOH recipient, a OTH/Dishonorably discharged person can say they're a veteran. Even though most of us would disagree, they are not lying/falsifying anything.

    All veterans related benefits (including veterans status on job applications with companies that gain an advantage with the govt for hiring vets) require a certified copy of the DD-214 short form that indicates honorable.

    Here's a question for us to talk about: we know Dishonorable does not qualify for CHL in most states, does OTH qualify?
     
  8. alphacat

    alphacat account deleted

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2003
    Messages:
    3,202
    Likes Received:
    0
    Good question. Anybody know the answer?:dunno:
    I sure don't.
     
  9. harlenm

    harlenm Millennium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 1999
    Messages:
    9,509
    Likes Received:
    473
    Location:
    CT
    Can you legally own a gun if you are discharge OTH?
     
  10. HerrGlock

    HerrGlock Scouts Out CLM

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2000
    Messages:
    23,796
    Likes Received:
    203
    Yes, depending on the state. Federally only restricts Dishonorable.
     
  11. Batesmotel

    Batesmotel

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2007
    Messages:
    15,719
    Likes Received:
    2,700
    Location:
    Utah
    Yes. I know a guy who got an OTH just because he is a total screw up. Caused the USAF thousands in damage. They just kicked him out but no criminal charges.
     
  12. JW1178

    JW1178

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2009
    Messages:
    2,436
    Likes Received:
    251
    Well depends on what happened with that OTH discharge. If he was discharged after court-martial then he was convicted of a crime, therefore no.

    Basically, Honerable Discharge means you served out your contract. OTH means you for some reason were not able to. Dishonerable means you did something really bad. I was Generally Discharged for a pre-existing condition. Some people who were in the discharge process with me were guys that left for all kinds of reasons. Most were for simple reasons but there were a few that could have been put up for court martial but were allowed to just leave. There were quite a few that just quit. They called it refusal to train. Anyways, at least they tried. Military (esp USMC) isn't for everyone and often recruiters really like to glorify things to young people who are easily impressioned.

    For the record, I do not consider myself a veteran. I do not consider myself a Marine or even Ex-Marine, but I was in the Marine Corps. I could still pass the IST and the PFT and probably could still mess someone up with a M16 up close or 500 yards out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2012
  13. JimP

    JimP

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2007
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    108
    Separate issues. You can only get a Bad Conduct or a Dishonorable Discharge as a result of a court-martial conviction and most (if not all) are felonies.
    You can get a "General" (Under honorable conditions) or an Other Than Honorable (OTH) via adminstrative proceedings, no court-martial needed (and are generally NOT considered 'convictions or felonies').

    An Honorable discharge is described simply as "Honorable".
     
  14. FFR Spyder GT

    FFR Spyder GT Ex-Gunslinger

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,132
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Hog Jaw, Arkansas
    Bad Conduct or a Dishonorable Discharge are NOT felonies.

    You are tried in a Military Court not a civilian court. Different rules.

    You can get sentenced to a Military Prison ( stockade, brig, etc.) like Leavenworth and still have a "clean" criminal record as far as the civilian court system, LE, etc is concerned.

    I know of more than one person that has received a BCD or DD and have bought firearms from dealers ( before the Brady checks), voted, and even held local political offices.

    Kinda don't ask, don't tell.

    But if you get a Big Chicken Dinner or a Dishonorable Discharge you give up all your Veteran's Rights. You do NOT get medical care or VA benefits.

    Plus you cannot claim the 5 -point Veteran preference for Federal jobs. Besides a background check would prevent you from being hired anyway.

    Spyder
     
  15. JimP

    JimP

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2007
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    108
    Spyder - you may want to check your facts. they are - indeed - felonies. there is a merger clause within the UCMJ and the state/fed criminal code. A felony is merely a crime subjecting you to jail for more than a year. It is a FEDERAL criminal conviction. The fact that individuals do not claim it as a state felony and it is not picked up under a federal check is a result of non-linkage or poor record keeping at the federal level.

    I assure you, if you diddle a little kid, you are a kiddy-diddler and MUST register as such under any State out there. The other convictions are pretty much a State by State issue.

    That's why I said "most" (if not all) are felonies. I can't recall a case wherein a BCD or a DD was NOT a felony. There may be...I just can't recall it. BTW, I am still active duty and work these issues every day.
     
  16. larry_minn

    larry_minn Silver Member Millennium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 1999
    Messages:
    10,085
    Likes Received:
    1,346
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I have a relative who decided to go into Army. Hopefully it will be best thing for him. He NEEDS help.
    You tell him NOT to do something Thats what he does. Wrecks cars (and its a joke) Kicked out of firearm safety.....

    I really worry he is going to ruin the rest of his life. Not that he will listen but anyway to get recruiter/someone to explain that before he gets in too deep to get out with OTH or worse?