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If the SHTF will you be capable of Physical Violence against another?

Discussion in 'Survival/Preparedness Forum' started by DoctaGlockta, May 22, 2012.

  1. Aceman

    Aceman

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    Nov 30, 2008
    Tampa
    I think one thing about the trained vs untrained crowd is this:

    Trained crowd is much more likely to AVOID need for force in general. Untrained crowd is more likely to both attempt to use it and get their @$$ kicked for it.

    Mid set is definitely the bigger issue. Mindset plus training - the ideal place.
     
  2. LongGun1

    LongGun1 StraightShooter


    +1 :thumbsup:

    Mindset, situational awareness, skillsets & preparedness... :)
     

    Last edited: May 31, 2012

  3. series1811

    series1811 Enforcerator. CLM

    Good point. The best way to win a fight is to not have to have it in the first place.

    (See my sig line).
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2012
  4. series1811

    series1811 Enforcerator. CLM

    The closest thing I can think of to this issue is having your child molested. Early in my LE career, I had to work child molesting cases. Now, everyone pretty much says, and really thinks, they would kill anyone who molested their kids. I know I feel the same way.

    Yet, out of all of the child molesting cases I worked, I only saw it happen one time. And, that was a mother, who within a few minutes of finding out, took a butcher knife and tried as hard as she could to stab her daughter's attacker to death. And, then, three months later, she was living with him again.

    I saw a lot of people get really mad, but I never saw anyone else actually do anything.

    But, you ask anybody, me included, and we all say we would kill the bastard.
     

  5. Yes indeed! My point exactly. So many on the net emphasis training, training, training. They totally miss the first step of making the decision first. It is far, far more important.

    Wasn't it Pat Garrit who said that many men have the skills, but few have the willingness?


    Cat
     
  6. Berto

    Berto woo woo

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    WA
    BTDT, went to jail for 8hrs...then dismissed by judge.
    It sucks, but I wouldn't have done anything different.
     
  7. Haldor

    Haldor Retired EE

    8,027
    1,054
    Oct 22, 2006
    Central Arizona
    Hell, I'm capable of it now. I wouldn't own self defense weapons if i was incapable of violence.

    My opinion is that everybody is capable of violence. The real question is how you respond when suddenly thrust into a situation where you must fight to survive. That is where experience, training, social conditioning and your own mental makeup really determine the outcome.

    Not ever having been in one of these situations I don't really know for certain how I will respond. I do believe that thinking through the issues before being put into a bad spot makes sense (so I am not trying to figure out what I could/should do in a certain situation instead of responding). Training and discussion is a way to work out what the appropriate responses would be beforehand and the more realistic the training the better.

    The second to the last thing I would ever want to do is kill someone when I absolutely didn't need to. The very last thing I would ever want to do is let someone harm me or a member of my family due to my own inaction/paralysis.

    I am not looking forward to the idea of using violence and I have no doubt that if I was forced to use it that it would cause me mental distress afterward. Beats losing a loved one though.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2012
  8. greentriple

    greentriple

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    Mar 11, 2010
    This could be a GREAT thread, but it's not.

    First, nobody can be prosecuted for their admission to violence without a crime: corpus delecti.
    Second, it's more relevant what you've experienced.
    Third, if you've run it over in you head you are probably in better shape...
    Fourth, training is great, but self defense training is not.

    I've been in more fights than I'm proud of and had knives, bats and 2 guns pulled on me. I'm still breathing, more from luck than skill. I believe if you're over 35 (my last fight) and still at it you're an idiot. I avoid fights now like I avoid fat people, both are signs of weakness.

    Can you kill? Anyone can. Can you live with it and not be a PTSD victim is the real issue.

    Movies are Fiction!, but the fight scene in Die Hard is a good example of adrenaline and determination v "training". I've had "trained" fighters bloody me and then give up when my thumb was in their eye socket or my middle finger was up their nose. I've also been smacked around a time or three.

    Nobody wins a fight. NOBODY wins a shooting, just ask Mr. Zimmerman.


    Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2012
  9. A person is never 'forced' into violence. A bad guy about to rape/kill your wife forces you into nothing at all. Many, faced with that circumstance succumb. Violence is a choise we make when faced with circumstances that it would solve to our benefit. Begging for mercy is a choice too, and one picked by many.

    Or so I think. :) You're of course welcome to think otherwise. But this is what my experience with and thinking about violence has brought me to.

    As I type this I am facing my sliding glass door. If someone were to come smashing through it right now it would be my choice to pick up the .45 next to the 'puter and see if I could stop his actions/plans. I've got 15 chances! :)


    Cat
     
  10. I agree with most of what you've said Mr. Greentriple. Except that nobody ever wins a gunfight.

    Those that don't make the stupid mistakes that Zimmerman made and don't live in a communist state can easily win gunfights. Actually happens here in Florida about on a weekly basis. A quick tour of the news will comfirm it.


    Cat
     
  11. greentriple

    greentriple

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    Mar 11, 2010
    True, I was a bit too "broad stroke" with that statement. What I should have written is that even if you survive, face no prosecution or civil liability, the psychological/emotional ramifications can be devastating.


    Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
     
  12. bdcochran

    bdcochran

    3,461
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    Sep 23, 2005
    Los Angeles
    What is the difference between an opinion essay & a discussion essay?



    ... ...
    Best Answer - Chosen by Asker
    An opinion essay is just that; an essay based on someones opinion of a topic or topics. A discussion essay is factual information presented on the topic(s). You are discussing a subject; typically with or to other people.

    I think that this thread started with a thrust of "will you" instead of "can you".

    The "will you" answer would be that it matters primarily to you - and you probably won't be posting here after shtf.

    The "can you" answer is a bit different based upon factual observations that are elsewhere (and not by me) documented:

    1. most people forced into combat never fire a weapon.
    2. most people forced into combat do not fire accurately for effectiveness as a matter of choice.
    3. most people don't accept that bad things can happen to them.
    4. most people do not think that they will die (that is why 50% of the lawyers and 10% of the general population ever write a will).

    The gentleman's essay reinforces what you probably already know, but implicitly reject in your life style:
    1. training is superior to not training;
    2. piling up supplies is not the same as training;]
    3. experiencing a dose of reality under fairly safe conditions is educational.

    Paranoia is not the unreasonable belief that somehow, somewhere, some person would want to kill you for your wallet, your girlfriend, your house, your religion or your political opinion.

    Paranoia is baseless or excessive suspicion of the motives of others.
     
  13. wjv

    wjv

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    >> Dinkheller encountered a speeding Toyota pickup truck near Dudley, Georgia, which he clocked at nearly 100 miles per hour

    >> Dinkheller fired a shot at Brannan but missed. After the first shot, Brannan returned fire and a barrage of gunfire was heard. Dinkheller did not strike the suspect initially and thus, was forced to reload.

    >> After being captured, Brannan was asked why he killed Dinkheller. His response was, "Because he let me."

    Sadly this POS is still alive. . .
     
  14. wjv

    wjv

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    Pacific NW
    Wonder how many cops now days would have went for their Tazer first. .

    I guess that would have been an OK move BEFORE the M1-Carbine came out. But once that guy pulled the rifle.

    The officer did seem very flustered and nervous (don't really blame him given the situation). But I wonder how much that contributed to his inability to hit the given that the officer did fire first.

    Easy to hit a man sized target at 50 yards at the range. Another thing to hit someone at 20 yards when the guy is waving an M1-Carb around, trying to kill you.
     
  15. GlockFanWA

    GlockFanWA

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    Sep 9, 2012
    Washington
    We don't know if Officer Dinkhetter was unwilling to use deadly force or if he was caught in a loop (mentally speaking). My take on this he was caught in a loop that he couldn't get his brain to break free from at all.
     
  16. UtahIrishman

    UtahIrishman BLR Silver Member

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    Utah
    That video was very unsettling I turned off the sound half way through.

    Everyone's capable but the trick is not only to be capable but to be ruthless about it.

    I've only been in one situation in my life where my life was seriously threatened. Luckily the other guy didn't have the nerve to continue what he started. I think he knew it and that's why he ran.

    I preferred that outcome, especially after the shaking stopped.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2012
  17. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

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    Alaska, again (for now)


    Statistically speaking, this isn't true.


    There's been a whole lot of research, and money spent by the .mil to figure out the best way to program soldiers to kill, and even then, they still haven't reached 100% yet.
     
  18. kirgi08

    kirgi08 Watcher. Silver Member

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    Acme proving grounds.
    A .gov program will not change a response ta a survival situation.Unless psych are involved.'08.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012
  19. TangoFoxtrot

    TangoFoxtrot OIF 04-05

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    Sep 10, 2008
    Nowhereville, USA
    Q: If the SHTF will you be capable of Physical Violence against another?
    A: Absolutely! Bottom line eat or be eaten.