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If the police need it, I need it.

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by ithaca_deerslayer, Dec 25, 2012.

  1. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

    Why would Vail be different? They are used to seeing people with open carry?
  2. NorthernAlpine

    NorthernAlpine RLTW

    Jun 7, 2010
    Red State
    You're right. Eat more red meat, hit the weight room, learn the basic 5 pressure points of striking. :rofl:

    Seriously though, I have met 4 people who go to the bathroom (in their house) with a firearm. They are all from either Montana or Texas. :supergrin:

  3. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

    Mar 26, 2003
    That's crazy talk. I don't go to the bathroom with a handgun. I have a long gun in the toilet stall and (big inside joke) a Mac-10 attached to the underside of the sink with magnets.
  4. CLoft239

    CLoft239 I Like Turtles

    Oct 30, 2011
    Oklahoma, USA
    :wavey: inside my home carry here in OK. Home invasions are high here.

    Handgun, IWB, to clarify. I don't do roving patrol inside my house with a rifle lol.

    Sent from the Titanic. I named my phone "The Titanic" so when I plug it into the computer it says "The Titanic is syncing".
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2012
  5. I'm from NYS. Just got done clearing my driveway of a foot of snow. My kid is playing legos on the floor. Wife is making supper.

    I'm sitting in my easy chair carrying a Glock 26, 10+1. When I go potty, it goes with me to the bathroom :)

    Evil assault weapon is loaded at the ready, too. Whether it be coyote or bad guy, I'm grabbing the bullet spraying high powered death ray. The pistol is what I use to fight
    to my military grade semi-automatic machine gun style high capacity bullet tumbling armor penetrating shoulder thing that goes up.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2012
  6. concretefuzzynuts

    concretefuzzynuts Brew Crew

    Dec 27, 2011
    It seems we are at times our own worst enemies. When we bicker among ourselves over semantics and theories of explanations. Can we all agree that if we stick to facts, followed by logic, both stated calmly, we gain much more ground?

    Example: While getting coffee at the local convenience store this morning the man next to me (a stranger) asked if Santa was good to me this year. I stated he was and that I got a better gun safe for Christmas. He said he wished the mother in CT had been as safe about her firearms and I agreed.

    He then said, "But I do think they should ban automatic rifles." I asked if he had a minute. And then told him (calmly) that automatic guns are already regulated so tightly that there are very few in the publics hands. And that the guns used in these highly publicized shootings are semi-automatics and explained the difference. Also explaining to him they are used for hunting, sport shooting, competition shooting and home defense. And that under 2% of these type of guns are used in homicides.

    He said he didn't know that and thanked me. I said feel free to look it up as I let him in line in front of me to pay for the coffee. He then held the door for me and we went on our merry ways.

    My point is facts and logic stated calmly will work.
  7. concretefuzzynuts

    concretefuzzynuts Brew Crew

    Dec 27, 2011
    Oh, and I always (except at bedtime) have a pistol on me. For no other reason than just like I always have my keys, wallet, etc.

    We are creatures of habit. I don't empty my pockets, holster, etc when I'm home. Never have.

    Some people do, more power to you.
  8. iiibbb


    Jun 1, 2004
    It is enlightening to know that some departments do not issue/allow their patrol officers to carry rifles.

    Personally, I often take the OP's position on my access to weapons... it is very effective when talking to the "smart gun" crowd.

    At any rate. I am comfortable with the argument that I should have access to the weapons that my local patrol officers have... if the local cops don't arm themselves with AR's or equivalent, I could go along. What situation am I ever going to encounter that my lever action or shotgun can't handle?

    My biggest problem with the gun-control crowd is they are disingenuous about meeting in the middle. You can tell by the fervor they attack law-abiding citizens (see the NY paper that published registered pistol owners). What better argument against registration than it's use to back stab the law abiding?

    There's lots of compromises I actually think are reasonable... unfortunately I don't trust the other side at all to play fair. I'm not giving up anything I don't have to in such a climate.
  9. JimBean


    Dec 19, 2012
    The way I look at it is law men use guns as defensive tools to defend themselves or others from bad people or animals. Semiauto rifles must be good for the purpose of defense otherwise why would they be used at all. The reporters that have no idea what they are talking about continue to label them weapons of war that are useless for defense. They are contradicting the very use of these rifles because law men are not killers that premeditate murder. I agree with you entirely that if semiauto rifles are useful to law men then the same weapons would equally serve well protecting my family. My family is every bit as important as the life of any officer and should be protected to the same degree.
  10. Well said :)
  11. I was always told that after shooting the shooter you remove the gun from their hand. :whistling: Good arguments there, Dragoon. :supergrin:
  12. Marlowe


    Dec 10, 2009
    Ventura County, CA
    Interesting discussion.

    The OP's original statement--that private citizens need the same weapons as police since, potentially, they could encounter the same threat--has appeal, I think, as away of explaining the private citizen's need for certain weapon types to people who question that need.

    Yes, police and civilians have differing roles and responsibilities, but, at the end of the day, the person who is a threat to a police officer is a threat to the law abiding private citizen.

    Police armament has evolved, over time, to keep pace with technology and the threat.

    American private citizens have traditionally looked to police weaponry to make their own choices. When revolvers and shotguns were most commonly used by police, they were also the most common choices among private citizens.

    Today, service size semi auto pistols in 9mm, .40S&W and .45ACP and semi auto rifles in .223/5.56 are common police weapons. Shotguns and small frame revolvers and semi autos are also common among police.

    So, not surprisingly, these are the weapons that private citizens looking for self defense firearms will turn to.

    So, I like the OP's premise. Police or private citizen, we face, potentially, the same threat. It is not unreasonable, therefore, for private citizens to look to police agencies' weapons and ammunition choices before making their own choices.
  13. countsk


    Sep 29, 2009
    I'm military and it works well for me on duty so it should work well for me off, not that I'm ever officially off. I'm comfortable and familiar with the M4/M16 platforms, so all I ask is to let me use the weapons I use to defend myself against foreign enemies over here against domestic enemies at home. Not that it is relevant to the discussion but I was in body armor all day yesterday. Never attended a driving skills class. Using words to deescalating violent situations doesn't work over here and I doubt it'd be useful defending my home.
  14. Bill Lumberg

    Bill Lumberg BTF Inventor

    Jun 14, 2002
    While I certainly think no further restrictions should be placed on the populace, and oppose any attempt to reinstate the AWB, to say that the needs of police are the same as that of the average citizen is fundamentally incorrect.
  15. Would you say that police need a semi-automatic rifle with a 20 or 30 round magazine, but that I do not?

    If such a rifle is only good for mass shootings and are no good for defense of self and loved ones, then why do the police have them?

    I assert that my position is indeed fundamentally correct :)

    And even more than that, it is an effective argument to use in discussions with people who may be starting to lean anti-gun because of media saturation of the few criminal misuses of guns looking like military guns but also carried by the police.
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2012
  16. Smithers


    Sep 29, 2012
    For a pretty overwhelming example of this when it comes to the lefts arguments about gun control, it is very hard to overcome the math of (lack) gun violence in places like Japan. It is a check in the "win" column for the anti-gun crowd.

    Japan is about culture, not guns.

    Sort of like the inner city but opposite.
  17. Smithers


    Sep 29, 2012
    You have opined the thoughts of many.
  18. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

    Sep 5, 2010
    Policing socities like Japan, and most of the world is very different. If you are disrespectful to Japanese law enforcement, they have no compunction to beating you.

    The Guardia Civil in Spain will also beat the crap out of you for mouthing off. This is toned down from their past when they would simply use a submachine gun on you if you disrespected them.

    America is a different place, where the citizens feel is a tradition to disrespect authority, and assault and murder their police.

    So, yes, there are real cultural and legal differences between our country and Japan.

    The following video is NSFW

    The guy in the video lost his job over this. However, it depicts how it seems our society feels in general toward LEOs, and what you CAN'T do in the United States, but what WOULD happen pretty much anywhere else in the world:

    [ame=""]Guy flips off cop beat down - YouTube[/ame]
  19. Ruble Noon

    Ruble Noon "Cracker"

    Feb 18, 2009
    How so? The semi-auto rifle is 19th century technology and the police have only recently gotten on board with this technology on a large scale.
  20. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

    Sep 5, 2010
    You sure they are Semi-Auto? I used to carry an SBR with the fun switch. I miss the fun switch, it required muzzle discipline and trigger control. You had to tickle it to get your 3 round bursts. Now, everything is a 3 round burst, requiring you to mash the trigger, which feels unatural after years of the full fun swtich.

    The happiest times at the range is with the fun switch. If you haven't had the opportuntiy, there isn't anything quite like it. It has zero practical application, IMHO. It is a jam looking to happen, especially in the Colt DI's.