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If the police need it, I need it.

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by ithaca_deerslayer, Dec 25, 2012.

  1. Caver 60

    Caver 60

    Jun 12, 2007
    Several nations with extremely strict gun control have sky high rates of gun violence. Old Mexico comes to mind. Don't give me that developed nations stuff.

    Also Japan is a completely different culture than our country. That might also have something to do with their low rate of gun violence. My Japanese daughter in law says their version of the Mafia has guns, but they don't use them as often.

    Just my opinion.
  2. OlliesRevenge


    Apr 26, 2012
    Wait a minute... shouldn't the gifts be flowing my way?:cool:

  3. 70 years ago the Japanese people were convinced their emperor was a God.
    70 years ago their military thought sneak attacking the Americans at Pearl Harbor was a good idea.
    Japan is currently described as one of the most racist nations in the world.
    We really want to be adopt their philosophy?
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2012
  4. To the Op
    Your argument is about as valid as any others I have heard.
    I had the same "discussion" with a fomer Marine. His argument, was that Assault weapons are only used to kill people. That no civilian should be allowed to own one.
    My argument was that many of the rifles/handguns in use today-originally designed for military use- are now responsibly used by millions of gun owners for target practice, hunting game.
    He was not persuaded. Neither was I.
  5. Little Joe

    Little Joe

    Dec 28, 2007
    At The Ready
    Can you recommend any good reading material on how to hone this skill?

    I didn't know classes were available on this subject. I'd like to learn more.
  6. CLoft239

    CLoft239 I Like Turtles

    Oct 30, 2011
    Oklahoma, USA
    I suppose I'm fortunate to work where I do then :beer:

    Sent from the Titanic. I named my phone "The Titanic" so when I plug it into the computer it says "The Titanic is syncing".
  7. nursetim


    Mar 1, 2006
    liberalville N. M.
    Rabbi, how many violent crimes committed in your jurisdiction last week? How many where the police were not just historians? Wasn't it decided that the police have no duty to protect individual citizens? So I am, for all intense and purposes, responsible for my own safety and defense, correct? Now, that said, you place yourself in dangerous situations daily as part of your job and we are not obligated to grab up villains. But shouldn't we as citizens have access to the same defense tools, if we so choose?
  8. Is steel cased ok :)
  9. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

    Mar 26, 2003
    And police existed in the USA at the time the constitution was ratified?
  10. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

    Sep 5, 2010
    George Washington excericsed the first police action personally durring Shay's Rebellion.

    The Constitution lists the Sheriff as the highest government official.

    Customs has existed since the 18th Century.

    So, yeah, it not only has a place in the Constiution, but a history from the period as well.
  11. M&P Shooter

    M&P Shooter Metal Member

    Jul 19, 2009
    Phila, PA
    Guns are for wimps. I trained with Rex for 8 weeks and now no one can stop me:cool:
    [ame=""]Napoleon Dynamite - Rex Kwon Do [HQ] - YouTube[/ame]
  12. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

    Sep 5, 2010
    The movie was hillarious. The cartoon was even funnier. Too bad they cancelled it.
  13. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

    Mar 26, 2003

    Funny, I don't see it mentioned at all in any of those BORs...guess that means the police, like our rights to bear arms in defense of self don't exist? :headscratch: The closest reference is the 4th, and yet, no mention of "police", "constable" or "sheriff" there.

    Yep, like you figured, police, like your right to bear arms in defense of property and/or self didn't exist then.
  14. Rabbi

    Rabbi The Bombdiggity Lifetime Member

    Dec 18, 2004
    San AntonioTexas


    (I dont know the exact numbers)

    But you are flat out wrong about what you think SCOTUS said about protecting people.(people love to quote that ruling but it often only proves they dont understand it and jsut want the soundbite) The police have no obligation to be your security lacking a reason to do so. The police damned well are responsible and under a legal obligation to act if there is a valid reason to do so.

    And yes, outside of a valid thread and available police, you are on "your own" when it comes to living your life. I dont disagree that you should have the tools to do so but one more time, I am pointing out the valid argument the other side makes when you only make it about the guns.

    The Police dont always get it right with all the other tools and all the training and your argument is, I just want the gun and that is all I need. That is a horrid argument, even if you should have the right.
  15. Rabbi

    Rabbi The Bombdiggity Lifetime Member

    Dec 18, 2004
    San AntonioTexas
    Again, Much of Europe...

    We have actual results vs. your opinion on how that would play out here.

    I actually agree with you but what you fail to see is, to an on the fence party, who is looking at results vs. the feelings of pro gun people, well, we look like a damned fool in the eyes of most people.

    In the face of facts, your untested opinions dont mean much to most people. You must chew on this truth no matter how you feel about the issue, and in particular, how you feel about people who dont see it your way.
  16. The proper frame of reference is, if it's availalbe in the U.S., then all U.S. LE should be allowed to have them. (And this measure only makes LE equal to the BGs, who still have the advantage of picking the time and place of ambush).

    We see once again it's patrol officers, and those first on the scene, who need them the most.

    Last edited: Dec 26, 2012
  17. Bruce M

    Bruce M

    Jan 3, 2010
    S FL
    It matters little to the other side what we believe is my guess. And it does not matter to them that some of the societies with low crime and strict gun laws have societies that are different, much less diverse, etc. What should be important to us is trying to understand their side, their arguments and being to offer cogent civil responses when we can.
  18. stevelyn

    stevelyn NRA Life Member

    I guess it would suck to be on your department. Of course after looking at your grid coordinates, it's not surprising they don't allow you to have rifles.

    My department has rifles and we carry them in electra-lock racks with our shotguns. Most of the agencies in AK have them.

    Of course we have to buy our own. They aren't mandatory, but we do highly encourage officers to obtain and carry them.

    I put the officers through a patrol rifle class (I'm also a police firearms instructor) and we train and qualify with them the same as our other firearms.

    We pretty much use our ARs exclusively on our serious calls. It's rare the shotguns come out of the rack anymore except for wildlife calls.

    With frangible ammo such as Hornady TAP, the rifle is much more precise and safer to use than a shotgun with a bead sight, especially when your distances open a little bit. Plus the rifles have holographic or red dot sights making them faster to pick up and use in low light and Streamlight TLRs mounted on the rails.

    In addition, due to my grid coordinates and the big furry wildlife issues we have to confront from May to October, I had to come up with a policy regarding the training, use and carrriage of big game rifles and the ammunition for them. Training isn't really an issue in this area for the most part because most of us already have a lot of experience with hunting rifles and killing stuff. The vast majority of training I have to do is changing the mindset of just grabbing any off-the-shelf junk ammuntion and loading up. I try to stress the importance of using high-end ammo with premium bullets on DLP bear kills. Of course reloads are allowed and the .30-06 is the minimum caliber.

    One of the guys carries either a Marlin 1895 in .45-70 with max book handloads or a Ruger Haweye in .35 Whelen Improved. Another uses a .30-06, one a .375 Win. and I ocillate between a Win. M-70 in .375 H&H that I call the sewer pipe and a .30-06.
  19. Here's something interesting.

  20. I have an AR issued to me and I have to qualify with it a minimum of 4 times a year.

    With that in mind, if somebody invaded my home, I would prefer to grab my Remington 870 or .45. IMO, the 12 gauge would be more effective in close quarters and if I was forced to fire shots inside my house with loved ones also present, I would rather it be #4 shot than .223 rounds. I don't load it with buckshot for home defense.