close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

I want to make sure everyone following the news now is aware of this:

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Will Beararms, Mar 1, 2013.

  1. DoubleWide

    DoubleWide

    3,973
    155
    Sep 3, 2008
    No AWB laws are passed. These LEOs are expressing their thoughts.

    Let's take a look at different amendments and possible future laws. I mean that's what we're talking about, right?


    4th - People start talking about passing laws that allow the police to search and seize property without search warrants and probable cause

    13th - People start talking about passing laws that allow the police to allow slavery and involuntary servitude for outstanding debts

    19th - People start talking about passing laws to arrest women for voting

    Would you have a problem with Sheriff speaking his mind about any of these?

    I mean, come on, what's 22 years of involuntary servitude while you wait for the Supreme Court finally hear and decide the case.
     
  2. BicycleDay43

    BicycleDay43 00 Buck dude

    2,730
    1
    Feb 4, 2007
    Oak Grove, Kentucky
    LEO's are paid to uphold and support the U.S. Constitution. Why are you so against cops respecting our Constitutional rights?

    posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
     

  3. Mushinto

    Mushinto Master Member

    The police going door to door, confiscating guns from honest citizens is hardly "a few gun laws." Besides being unconstitutional and immoral, it is quite dangerous for the officer. I know many otherwise law-abiding people who might shoot a police officer under these circumstances. I would imagine that many cops would refuse such service on the grounds that it was too dangerous.

    As for AK, he is a soldier and not a cop. He does not have a clue. I have trained many ex-military for law enforcement. Some of them were the "only see black and white" kind of guys and they rarely made it as a police officer.

    If a soldier refuses an order, he might be court martialed and shot. If an LEO refuses an order, he may be subject to discipline. Refusing an order because it is too dangerous, and assuming it is not normal police duties, will rarely result in discipline.
     
  4. fg17

    fg17

    2,212
    797
    Oct 25, 2012
    "going door to door, your talking extremes. But as long as were on the subject. I have been shooting, hunting and competing for 30 years. I have also experianced my share of violence. I hear a lot of internet tough talkers. 99% of the "from my cold dead hands" crowd would wet there pants if an entry team came through there door, the other 1% would be dead. Its all a silly fantasy:rofl:
     
  5. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

    18,166
    1,867
    Jan 20, 2004
    Alaska, again (for now)

    The problem is not that I don't have a clue.


    The problem, is that a bunch of you, have no clue or grasp of what I was ever talking about.
     
  6. Bruce M

    Bruce M

    43,197
    15,042
    Jan 3, 2010
    S FL
    I think that what he might be suggesting is exactly that - they are paid to uphold the Constitution and follow the rule of law. Both of which mean that there are processes to follow to determine the Constitutionality of actions and laws that precludes the officer from determining by himself what is and is not Constitutional, especially for situations where there is not clear consensus on both sides of an issue. Or perhaps I do not understand him myself. But I know I feel that way.

    More than a few here would have a problem if a police agency decided to take it upon itself to make up policy to deny concealed weapon licenses despite state statute requirements. Yet people seem to be suggesting using the exact same extralegal process for the police to decide on the Constitutionality of an issue by themselves. If we allow the police to avoid the system in place to determine legality and Constitutionality, we must not be surprised when the police end up coming to a different conclusion than what we wish.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2013
  7. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

    15,307
    3,132
    May 4, 2003
    Situation, as I see it, is that you're in vigorous disagreement with LE who would substitute their judgement for the courts. Over-reaching cops, we have people who know better, etc.

    You've been given examples from the US, not some foreign land, where the court said, "do it".

    So it's entirely valid to ask if you'd do those things. The court said that interning Japanese was legal. Would you do it? How is that off track? How is that nothing like the situation?

    You've correctly pointed out a logical fallacy of an appeal to popularity in this thread. You're floundering, though, when it comes to your own use of appeal to authority. Which, if you did t know, is another fallacy.

    So: will you enforce a law to pack Japanese away from the exclusion zone? Court said it was proper, and it's not like they're going to the ovens.
     
  8. JackMac

    JackMac

    845
    2
    Mar 13, 2011
    TX
    circular formula....the Constitution is the law of the land. If a law is passed that is in contravention to the Constitution, then it is illegal or as the Court's rule....on many laws...."unconstitutional". I support the Constitution and many years ago took an Oath to do just that....in addition to defending my Country against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
     
  9. GunHo198

    GunHo198

    1,120
    0
    Oct 7, 2004
    Tampa
    Any Law that circumvents the Constitution would merely be a Suggestion and not enforceable. And I would never surrender my guns and wait for the courts to take a year or two to sort it out.


    Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
     
  10. billn

    billn

    447
    1
    Jul 1, 2012
    Do you enforce every traffic violation you spot?
     

  11. It has happened in the USA in your lifetime!
    http://youtu.be/-taU9d26wT4
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
  12. herose

    herose

    950
    9
    Jun 13, 2006
    Kentucky
    Wrong. I swore an oath to uphold the Constution of the Commonwealth of Ky and the United States of America. Therefore I can refuse to enforce laws that are unconstitutional. Don't know to what other officers in other states swear an oath.
     
  13. Mushinto

    Mushinto Master Member

    Going door to door is the topic at hand. Lesser fake gun control laws would not be an issue for an officer to ignore.

    I just say another left wing radical on TV this morning saying that "He supports the Second Amendment" and No one wants to come and take your guns."

    He is a liar.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. bobtheelf

    bobtheelf

    740
    65
    Sep 3, 2012
    Nashville
    So you want a force of drones that will "just follow orders"?
     
  15. Diesel McBadass

    Diesel McBadass Tactically Epic

    10,316
    720
    Apr 15, 2011
    Dover NH
    Ill thank the police doing this. My federal oath is to the constitution, not to the government. Theres a difference.
     
  16. SitkaBob

    SitkaBob

    13
    1
    Jun 8, 2012
    Those who simply follow orders in the protection of their own jobs are simply bureaucrats. We all have the obligation to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States." The Oath I took in 1975, which by the way does not expire, put the constitution First and obeying the orders of those appointed over me second.

    None of us has the moral obligation to obey any order we find to be immoral, illegal, or unconstitutional. That is the heart of Ethics. Ethics involves choice and responsibility. A true ethical dilemma is where one is faced with two equally valid yet competing moral obligations. Obey the Constitution as written or obey orders.

    I commend these Law Enforcement Officers because they stand ready to pay the price for their choice. Are you?
     
  17. Proud2pak

    Proud2pak

    5
    0
    Oct 2, 2012
    Refusing to enforce such unconstitutional laws is THE MOST patriotic thing anyone who has sworn an oath can do.
     
  18. Proud2pak

    Proud2pak

    5
    0
    Oct 2, 2012
    excellent !!!!
     
  19. mgentry

    mgentry

    705
    0
    Nov 21, 2010
    Mississippi
    But they are defending their oath - most of the public servant oaths include these words - "that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic." So as part of their oath, they must make a decision if a law or an order is constitution or not - the same with the military.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
  20. GunHo198

    GunHo198

    1,120
    0
    Oct 7, 2004
    Tampa
    They are more than welcome to try. But there are a lot more crazy people out there than you think. If you think what you hear in the news is bad now? Wait till the day they try. Most of my military buddies are geared up and waiting. It could only take but a spark to cause a full blown fire. And the kindling is already been set. The shortage of guns and ammo isn't because people are in a buying frenzy to get them off the streets, there buying because they want them before a ban. And there not just going to hand them over peacefully.


    Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013