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I think the NFA is Unconstitutional

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Kingarthurhk, Dec 8, 2012.

  1. Ruggles

    Ruggles

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    Thru the interpretation of the 2nd A.

    1. The meaning of "a well regulated militia" (regulated by who?, are only militia members protected?)
    2. The meaning of "Arms" (what is covered in the meaning and what is not)
    3. The meaning of "Infringed" can even be viewed as any "violation" of the right or only past a certain point of "violation" of the right.

    The very reasons this thing has been in debate for decades by so many.

    Not gonna be settled here, or anywhere else. It will be a ongoing debate IMO. With scholars, experts and passionate laymen on both sides. Of course I am a huge anti gun guy for even bringing this stuff up I guess? :wavey:
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  2. Ruggles

    Ruggles

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    Good question about the militia, I would guess the courts would say no but who can be sure.

    I think state military forces would theoretically fall into this debate as they don't fall under federal command directly. What about LEO at the local & state level. All of these certainly have weapons banned under the NFA yet posses them.

    The only thing keeping politicians from doing what they want is each other and ultimately citizens/voters.
     

  3. It's funny you should bring that up cuz there's a huge 14th amendment issue going on with that. You know, equal protection under the law thing? They are somehow better to have these weapons than the common citizen???

    Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

    Clyde
     
  4. Ruggles

    Ruggles

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    Well I guess the judicial branch will have to sort that out, good thing that is built into our system of government. :wavey:

    And before you ask yes I think state military forces, local LEOs are fine to have weapons systems you (as in unknown common citizen) can't buy at the local gun show. Call it a implied trust thing.

    I know...I know....I am anti this and anti that because I believe this :rofl:
     
  5. Travclem

    Travclem Badass Member Lifetime Member

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    Yes you are.

    We had a police officer not long ago arrested for molesting his 2 year old step daughter, another one that took a BJ to let a girl off a traffic ticket, and yet another who was DWI in his patrol car with 4 flats and the lights on. Implied trust? that's the real joke here.:rofl:

    I would much rather an upstanding citizen have weapons than these guys.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  6. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

    Why dont one of you guys that wants NFA done away with get a lawyer and challenge the law based upon

    3.The Second Amendment protects only the ownership of military-type weapons appropriate for use in an organized militia.

    Saying a full auto M-4 is used by the military and therefore United States v. Miller specifically allows it. Dont ***** about it, do something about it!!
     
  7. Ruggles

    Ruggles

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    And how are you going to determine who is a "upstanding" citizen and who is not? And exactly who gets to decide that anyways? And when and why does the "upstanding" person lose that status? Who determines that? Do they loose is for a specific period of time? Or permanently? Again who decides that?

    Are the LEOs you mentioned still in their positions? I would guess not. Want to know why, because the "implied" trust bestowed upon them was removed due to their action. Imagine that, society endowed them with that trust and then revoked it when they proved they were not trustworthy.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  8. Ruggles

    Ruggles

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    I would guess that sprouting off on the internet bout it is easier and just about as effective than going to court with some of their "ideals". Of course I would love to see the opening statements of a court case to legalize private ownership of, RPGs, SAMs or cruise missles :rofl:
     
  9. Travclem

    Travclem Badass Member Lifetime Member

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    Ok, do away with upstanding. I'd rather a civilian have access to AT LEAST the same weapons as those "cops."

    2 of them are still in their current positions, 1 is not(molester). The 2 that are still working were "misunderstandings" swept behind the thin blue line. Don't get me wrong, I have a dad and 3 uncles that are police officers in some form or fashion around here, but saying that being a police officer gives you rights to more weapons than me is outrageous.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  10. Ruggles

    Ruggles

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    They have the "right" to more weapons than you for the same reason they can arrest you and you can not arrest them. The "right" they have to flash some lights and you have to pull your car off the road. The right to stop you when you are walking down the street. That is that society has endowed them with that responsibility. That implied trust. If you want the same "rights" to weapon systems do you think you should have the same arrest rights? If not they why?
     
  11. Travclem

    Travclem Badass Member Lifetime Member

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    Maybe I should be able to arrest them. Maybe that little girl wouldn't have gotten molested if someone had arrested her police officer step dad earlier, as I doubt this was his first sexual abuse behavior.

    This "implied trust" that you place in government officials is the same trust that they take advantage of and laugh about among themselves.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  12. Ruggles

    Ruggles

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    In that case I agree you arresting (or smashing) that guy would have been the right thing. But clearly everyone having that ability/right might lead to a few issues....

    Our society can not work without implied trust. Hell my company can not run without implied trust. You can'y go out to dinner or buy groceries without the implied trust you are not ingesting poison. It 's part of our society. The trust we place in LEOs and military are just a extension of that IMO.
     
  13. racerford

    racerford

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    I do have the right to arrest them, if I witness them committing a felony. Doesn't matter if they are a police officer or not.

    It may not be practical or I may end up dead, but I have that right.... at least in my state.
     
  14. Airborne Infantryman

    Airborne Infantryman 'Murica!

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    Police still have to fill out ATF Forms, and go through almost the same paperwork as a civilian to get NFA items. Only difference is its a tax-free transfer.

    For every bad cop, there are 100 good ones. You only hear about the bad ones because that's what the media makes a story out of.

    There are good and bad people in all jobs/walks of life. You only hear about the bad ones.

    The American Silencer Association is working on this....at least suppressor-wise.

    FYI, speaking as someone who has access to full-auto, and uses weapons with this capability on a weekly basis, full-auto is a waste of ammo, with no true applicability other than having fun. :supergrin:

    At the very least, the ATF needs to open up the Machine Gun Registry, and get rid of that pre-'86 bull ****.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  15. Travclem

    Travclem Badass Member Lifetime Member

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    I know there are good cops, I have a few in my family. The point I was making is that a badge doesn't equal immediate good guy status.

    I have access to full auto too, and you are right, it is mostly a waste of ammo but it sure is fun. I agree, Reagan's machine gun law needs to go.



    Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
     
  16. soflasmg

    soflasmg

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    You don't have this right. Do some research.
     
  17. [​IMG]


    Yep, couldn't have said it better myself.

    Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

    Clyde
     
  18. Ruggles

    Ruggles

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    No doubt true. But that does not mean the material instruments are not relevant. A madman is Iraq is extremely dangerous. A mad man in Iraq with a WMD even more so because he can act on his madness to a much more destructive end.

    And to be honest your moral theory that the only way to safeguard liberty in America is to allow an open door to weapon platforms regardless of anything else is a moral theory that would lead to horrific things IMO.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  19. Glock20 10mm

    Glock20 10mm Use Linux!

    When you trust the state that much you will soon be consumed by the state and stripped of your liberties. Don't believe me? Read some history about people that put their "implied trust" into the state.
     
  20. Glock20 10mm

    Glock20 10mm Use Linux!

    That's an easy question to answer... we don't have the money. See contrary to what the common citizen believes, the legal system is no longer blind and just. It is run by money and greed and the man with the most money generally wins the battle. That's been seen time and time again as well.