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i found out the hard way....

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by cowboywannabe, Oct 26, 2012.

  1. cowboywannabe

    cowboywannabe you savvy?

    21,412
    5,055
    Jan 26, 2001
    that i turned in to a micro manager.

    our captain micro manages the freak out of us, asks questions about a report that you could only answer if you were there doing eveything yourself. so in order to stop from having to pull cruiser cam tapes for the smallest detail i began showing up at the most trivial calls with my patrolmen, stepping in and taking over, selecting and directing.......

    i had to step back and look at myself, then ask some of the guys to be honest and tell me if i micro manage, they said "sometimes you do".

    ive become what i resent but i have a plan. i will go back to supervising, leading, coaching...et cetera.

    when my capatain asks for detail on minor incidents i will ask to read the report hes looking at and regurgitate the information on it, when hes unsatisfied with that i will ensure my O/T is logged and i will burn DVDs of the cruiser cams and rat pack audio and simply give it to him. i will then ask if he wants me to stay on the clock reviewing the minute details.

    kinda smart ass, but its the only thing i can come up with right now...its been a tough night.

    whatcha think?
     
  2. indigent

    indigent Bamboozled

    1,281
    77
    Jul 2, 2005
    Tx
    Tell him to get on the road.....

    I'm sure your guys are writing decent reports and any questions that arise should be answered in the report..... At some point the "what if's" and "well how come's" have to stop.....
     


  3. Roadkill_751

    Roadkill_751 5 or 6 rounds?

    917
    17
    Aug 29, 2005
    North Georgia
    Yes, I know a Captain that does this in my agency. :whistling:

    So it is so common, it must be taught in Captain school. It also might be a CALEA requirement. :supergrin:
     
  4. nikerret

    nikerret Mr. Awesome

    7,401
    127
    Mar 29, 2005
    Kansas
    We don't have Captains and we don't have this problem. Something to think about.
     
  5. Are you in one of those agencies where there as as many "chiefs" as there are "indians"?
     
  6. Mattz

    Mattz

    385
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    Nov 16, 2005
    Sometimes I think it's easy to be a patrol officer and complain about micromanagement from supervisors, when we don't realize the liability and stress placed on the supervisors that tend to cause them to act that way in the first place.
     
  7. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

    19,156
    2,097
    Apr 30, 2005
    They act that way for two reasons,

    1. because they look out for themselves first and foremost.

    2. because they don't have the balls to stand up for their people (as to why, refer to #1)
     
  8. Mattz

    Mattz

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    Nov 16, 2005
    I don't disagree with that. But I think it's easy for a patrol officer to critique a position he's never held, without understanding all that comes with it. Sometimes I look at policies and think they're silly, but then place myself in a position of supervision and it tends to make more sense.
     
  9. lawman800

    lawman800 Juris Glocktor

    If you need all those details right then and there, ask the guy who wrote the report, or give the second in command time to get the details for you. Don't expect him to be an encyclopedia or camcorder and know every little piece of information.

    I have people that do that to me to the point that I have to do twice or three times the work on everything I present just so I have everything covered and of course, they never ask me when I end up lugging a while pushcart full of files in the meeting.
     
  10. scottydl

    scottydl

    2,677
    52
    May 31, 2005
    The Middle
    Same here, hehe. I'm in an agency where they actually let us officers handle the call, and rarely question us about how it was resolved (unless there's a compelling reason to do so). What a concept!

    My old agency was like that. 50/50 ratio on officers and supervisors, small department about 30 sworn. Sometimes on patrol there were only supervisors working! I always asked, "Who is supervising who?!?" Ridiculous.

    New agency is about 1 gold badge for every 5-8 silvers, depending on shift. About 130 officers total. Works out extremely well.
     
  11. OFCJIM40

    OFCJIM40 Happy Jaeger

    276
    17
    Jan 22, 2001
    Chicago-area, IL.
    Micro management is the #1 killer of morale on a PD in my opinion. As long as the group of guys are competent and properly trained, leave them alone. We are big boys that carry guns, have badges, and face life/death, we don't need to be babysat. Patrol is also aware of these policies and their careers are at stake too for screw ups. Also what annoys patrol is bosses that want to act like they have it so hard. Spare me, you took the test, you wanted the stripes and the extra pay and there's no shocker what goes into it. Be a leader, not a manager. If you lead by example then all falls into place. So I say good on you for recognizing what you were doing wrong. Your men will respect you more, work harder for you, and overall the shift will run much smoother.

    I would also tell your Captain that you run your shift well and what is he so concerned about. Why does he want every single detail. I would tell him, "my guys got it covered and why are you so worried about the small stuff. When the big call happens I'll keep you in the loop. Let me sweat the small things and let my guys work where they don't feel like children at a daycare center".
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2012
  12. ClydeG19

    ClydeG19

    5,267
    946
    Oct 5, 2001
    Arizona
    My boss is a big micromanager, but I don't feel I have enough time on to really talk to him about it. I've hinted here and there that I don't need to be babysat, but never really come out and been blunt about it. Don't get me wrong, there are officers on the dept that need closer supervision, but I wish he'd let up on the officers that don't. One of my strengths has always knowing what I don't know and getting advise/direction on it. For the routine stuff, get off my back.
     
  13. SPDSNYPR

    SPDSNYPR Zippy's Friend.

    6,591
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    Jun 12, 2006
    OK, USA
    Sorry - I'm going to have to throw a bull**** flag here. I can think of plenty of cops that were sued, disciplined, or fired because of their actions at my PD, and most of the agencies around me state. I have yet to hear of one ****ing captain getting ****-canned, sued, or seriously disciplined for the actions of their employees. My LT doesn't get fired when a patrolman crashes a car driving too fast to a call - the officer does.

    About the only time a Capt, Lt, or any other "ranking" officer gets in trouble is when they do the same stupid **** that would get the officer in trouble - which they do all on their own after telling us we shouldn't.

    So, no. It's not because of their liability and stress of sitting in their office and second-guessing their officers. That's a horse-**** cop out.
     
  14. blueiron

    blueiron

    11,145
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    Aug 10, 2004
    Agreed.

    Any stress that supervisors, managers, and executives feel is likely brought on by not meeting promotion times fast enough, not getting choice seating next to the chief at meetings, and being pwned by their wives when they get home.
     
  15. OFCJIM40

    OFCJIM40 Happy Jaeger

    276
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    Jan 22, 2001
    Chicago-area, IL.
    The stress that most middle managers (Sgt.'s and Lt.'s) feel is do they side more with Admin or their guys. Very few I have seen get this right. A lot will sell outs their own guys for future promotions or other bright shiny future things. A lot of Sgt.'s don't realize you are supposed to be the buffer between your guys and Admin. Almost a mother duck if you will. You should protect your ducklings from outside evil (Admin), but you are allowed to nip them back inline if need be. But if your ducklings are happily waddling around the pond, and not walking towards a sewer grate, a cat or into traffic, leave them the hell alone. (I used a fuzzy image of ducks so that any lobotomized company man could understand. Lol).
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2012
  16. DaBigBR

    DaBigBR No Infidels!

    8,798
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    Oct 28, 2005
    Circling the wagons.
    I personally think Mattz is confusing actual liability with perceived liability on the part of the supervisor, the supervisor's responsibility to shield the department from liability, and the requirements that the department places on supervisors for enforcement of policy, limitation of liability, and documentation.

    Supervisors at my department have an absolute **** ton of administrative bull**** on their plates. They are hamstrung by policy and docmentation requirements that, I think, can eventually break down their desire to see hard-charging, proactive policing. They do not receive overtime, and are no better staffed than the line, so they end up working off duty and at home to get the administrative **** done.

    It's a department issue, and obviously they put in for the promotion, but the expectations on them are sometimes ridiculous. I'm definitely not at the head of the line championing their cause, but I understand.
     
  17. Mattz

    Mattz

    385
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    Nov 16, 2005
    Easy guys, don't put me on the stake and burn me so quick. I'm just saying we all know this job is about liability, and sometimes more of that is placed on supervisors, just in my opinion.

    Look at the incident in Los Angeles here a month or so ago where the officers removed the female from a car and slammed her on the ground, then high fived each other. The captain at that station was reassigned and got bumped down on his pay scale, due to, I believe, handling the situation in house and not submitting it to IA. (Correct me if I'm wrong). Not sure if that's the best example to use, but it's one where a supervisor not involved in an incident ended up getting his dick slapped.
     
  18. JBaird22

    JBaird22

    1,679
    0
    Nov 18, 2005
    Washington
    I can see both sides. The stress of being a supervisor comes from above not from below. Even when a line level employee makes a mistake, the stress of handling it comes from above the first line supervisor not from an outside source.

    As others have said, the first line supervisors voluntarily take the tests and with that accept the stresses and working conditions. Some, however strive to take care of our people, but just like the patrol officer that learns his sgts requirements, the first line supervisor learns the captain or lieutenants requirements and is forced to conform as well.
     
  19. AngryBassets

    AngryBassets Jagenden Übel

    I was promoted to Sgt in 05, and Lt in 2010. Each rank has it perks and drawbacks. Like anything, it's what you make of it.

    I've had great/awful bosses....and great/awful subordinates.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2012
  20. vanilla_gorilla

    vanilla_gorilla

    436
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    May 31, 2005
    Florida

    I have long stated that the very best supervisors (specifically sergeants and lieutenants) are the ones who know they are going to retire from the position they are currently in. They have no reason to kick crap onto their subordinates so they can stand on it to get to the next level.