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Discussion in 'Political Issues' started by Ruble Noon, Jun 29, 2012.
Fine. You're an outlaw, and we can whack you and take your stuff whenever we feel like it.
If you want to remove yourself from the social contract, have the guts to do go about it with the classic flair. Don't hide behind the protections of the system you despise.
(Generic "you" above, applicable only to those who want to hoist the black flag.)
Watch out for drones ! ......
When he says that government cannot govern without the consent of the governed. In reality, that is a group consent, not an individual event.
I have a lot less problem with people that say they want to opt out, if they fully opt out. Which means no use of taxpayer funded amenities, such as roads, internet, subsidized food and energy etc. Buy a patch if land, disconnect from the grid, don't use police, fire and public EMS, stay off the roads, and live truly free with my blessing.
There's quite a few people in prison who thought they could secede from government control.
That's not allowed.
There's a lot of wiggle room in what he says. First "consent of the governed" is collective, not individual, so you can't opt out (or else every criminal would do so, for example). Second, the government doesn't have to be "righteous" to rule, it just has to have sufficient force to kill you, which it does.
I note that the southern fence still isn't built.
And black cloth is probably on sale near you. (Again, generic)
See how well that goes.
Good luck with that.
It's allowed by me, for what that's worth. With great freedom comes great responsibility. Most of the sovereign citizens I've run into are not avoiding the use of roads and other taxpayer funded items.
GT moment of truth:
That's what it comes down to.
An invitation to leave the country of my birth is unbecoming of your posting style.
I am merely commenting (per my post above) on the reality of the situation.
The facts are that the state is in complete control (monopoly on force) and that yesterday's ruling severs any practical shackles on the actions of the federal state.
Those advocating "opting out" are not thinking clearly, and are not apparently well informed regarding the nature of the state.
As was I. Those saying that there are no options are also missing the reality. If you (yet again, generic) believe that you can't change things within the system, you can leave or revolt. Otherwise, by process of elimination, you *do* consent to be governed.
Can you describe that moment and the options
I'm not sure I understand your meaning. My post, with the attached quote, was reaffirming the fundamental truth that a government's mandate to rule is based on its monopoly on force or, as Bren stated, its ability "to kill you."
I didn't list any other options because there are none. The state is not static. Rather, it is a dynamic that, once set into motion, moves along the same trajectory as all governments always have (and always will). We are simply along for the ride at this point.
Well I certainly don't agree with how that was handled. It was only my blessing, I certainly do not speak for or control the federal government.
I have been pondering this for a while.
Let's say the federal government came up to you tomorrow with a buyout offer. They will refund any social security money you ever paid in (employer matched funds stay); you never have to pay federal income taxes again, will never be covered by Medicare or Medicaid, etc. I understand their reach: national parks, roads, the post office, etc. I understand your past military affiliation makes this a difficult question to objectively answer. (BTW, thank you for your past service)
However, there is a twist to this - you can STILL receive mail since the sender has paid the postage. I can receive police and fire protection if I am sent a bill I am willing to pay if I use their services; I can employ private driving companies who pay their taxes for the privilege to drive on the roads, etc.
The roads are a great example. You have paid in your taxes and they still now want to pass a tax for every mile you drive? If you are in the car as a passenger of someone who has consented to be governed are we now saying the fed can enforce its will on who rides in your car?
If I choose not to be governed does this mean I can enforce my own form of common sense justice?
And remember, regardless of where the patch of land is some local government will want you to pay property taxes.
The government is a legalized and condoned mob. As the recent healthcare "scandal" has just proved...they are slowly inching their way into every aspect of our lives.
I'm waiting for the day a federal official knocks on my door with a family of 6 in tow and says "Mr Pugman, this is the X family who YOU are know responsible for taking care of. If you choose not to do so we or they will sue you and take everything you own and give it to them anyway."
Lets be honest: the federal government would never allow its subjects to revolt like this.
I better not.'08.