Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

How many Virginians knew about this...

Discussion in 'Glockers of the Old Dominion' started by Fungunner, Jun 23, 2007.

  1. Hefty Fees In Store for Misbehaving Va. Drivers

    By Tom Jackman
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Saturday, June 23, 2007; A01

    Attention Virginians: The cost of bad driving is about to go up. Way up.

    Say you are driving 78 mph on the Capital Beltway and a state trooper tickets you for "reckless driving -- speeding 20 mph over." You will probably be fined $200 by the judge. But then you will receive a new, additional $1,050 fine from the Old Dominion, payable in three convenient installments. So convenient that you must pay the first one immediately, at the courthouse.

    First-time drunk driver? A $300 fine from the judge and a $2,250 fee from the commonwealth.

    Driving without a license? Maybe a $75 fine. Definitely a $900 fee from Virginia.

    As part of the plan to fund the annual $1 billion transportation package approved this year, state legislators endorsed a new set of "civil remedial fees" for all misdemeanor and felony traffic violations, such as speeding 20 mph above the limit, reckless driving and, in some cases, driving with faulty brakes. Drivers with points on their licenses -- a speeding ticket usually earns four points -- will be hit for $75 for every point above eight and $100 for having that many points in the first place.

    The new fees will go into effect July 1, and defense attorneys, prosecutors and judges expect chaos. Court clerks fear having to deal with angry hordes learning about the fees for the first time at the payment window.

    "I think that we will be overwhelmed," said Nancy L. Lake, clerk of the Fairfax County General District Court, which includes the busiest traffic court in the state. "We feel we're going to take a lot of flack."

    The fees will be imposed only on Virginia residents. All defendants must pay the fines, but the "abuser fees," as Del. David B. Albo (R-Fairfax) calls them, are part of the state licensing fees and cannot be imposed on out-of-state drivers.

    Standard traffic infractions, such as low-level speeding and running a stop sign, do not carry the fees. The state courts posted the fees and eligible offenses this month.

    Albo and Del. Thomas D. Rust (R-Fairfax), who co-sponsored the fee legislation, project that $65 million to $120 million will be raised annually to cover costs of snow removal, pothole repair and grass-mowing. Money for Northern Virginia's congested roads had to come from somewhere, they reasoned, and new taxes were not going to fly in the GOP-controlled House of Delegates.

    The people who will be caught up in the new fees say the first wave of chaos will hit in early August, when the first tickets issued under the new law arrive in courthouses.

    Traffic court judges fear they will see a huge increase in trials, with defendants unwilling to plead guilty because they know they will face additional fees.

    Prosecutors say that in addition to possibly handling more trials, judges might suspend fines they usually impose, knowing that a heavier civil fee awaits. The money from fines will go to county governments, which could then face a decline in revenue. Funds from the new fees will go to the state.

    Defense attorneys say the new fees will unfairly burden the poor because they will not be able to pay them, will lose their licenses and possibly their jobs, and then will face tickets for unlicensed driving, which would lead to jail time.

    Michael S. Davis, a veteran Fairfax defense attorney, said he plans to file a legal challenge to the fees the first time he encounters them. "If somebody from out of state does not have to pay the same price," Davis said, "I think there's clearly an equal-protection issue" under the U.S. Constitution.

    Albo said he would agree with that view if the fee were imposed as criminal punishment. "But it's not," he said. "It's a variable registration fee based on the lousiness of your record. We're giving people with good driving records a reduction in their fee. And we can't charge a registration fee on people from New York flying through Virginia."

    Lead-footed drivers should not hold their breath waiting for the legal challenge. Davis said it would have to plow through the state's administrative process before making it to the courts and would be followed by levels of appeals. It would take years.

    The fees were included in a larger package passed by the General Assembly to try to address the burgeoning congestion across the state. When Albo and Rust submitted the fee proposals as legislation by themselves in previous years, they were shot down.

    "My job as a delegate is to make people slow down and build some roads," Albo said. "This bill does both."

    Rust and Albo said New Jersey imposes similar fees to great effect. New Jersey was "pretty convinced it improved safety on the roads," Rust said.

    New Jersey calls the fees "surcharges" and raises about $130 million from them annually, Cathleen Lewis, state motor vehicle agency spokeswoman, said. The money is not specifically earmarked for transportation and has been collected since 1983. The number of points drivers have accrued has decreased since 1983, Lewis said, but there is no study linking the decrease directly to the surcharges. New Jersey charges all drivers, not just residents.

    And most of New Jersey's surcharges are much smaller: $100 for driving without a license, compared with $900 in Virginia. But a first conviction for driving while intoxicated in New Jersey brings a $3,000 hit vs. $2,250 in Virginia.

    In Virginia, the fee can be paid over three years. After the first third is paid at the courthouse, the other two are to be billed by the state Department of Motor Vehicles. DMV officials have not determined how that will work, a spokeswoman said.

    Faced with the prospect of financially poorer drivers losing their licenses when they cannot pay a fee, judges might start suspending part or all of the original fines, Alexandria Commonwealth's Attorney Randolph S. Sengel said. The result "might be increased transportation funding offset by decreased general fund revenue," he said.

    "For someone who's living near the poverty line, or even making $30,000," said Fairfax public defender Todd G. Petit, fees of $1,000 or more might have "a significant impact," and failure to pay them might lead to losing a license, a job and income. "These appear to be punitive measures that are being hidden in civil fees. If we gave the judges discretion to do what is necessary and proportionate, then we can raise the money without disproportionately affecting the poor."

    Lawyers said that more defendants will hire lawyers than before, that the lawyers will charge more money because the stakes are higher and that more cases will be appealed to circuit courts.

    "It's basically the Lawyer Full Employment Act," cracked one Fairfax lawyer, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he stands to benefit from the new law.

    But, Albo said: "it's basically a voluntary tax. If you don't commit a crime on the streets, or run up a huge amount of points, you don't pay anything. We believe its main effect will be to get people to stop driving like maniacs."
  2. Jerseycitysteve


    Nov 11, 2004
    Anybody who drives 78 mph on the Washington beltway, deserves a public flogging. A fine is a mercy.

    Listen up: Virginia needs roads. Either we raise taxes or increase fees. I don't see the problem.

  3. Well they certainly have this part right:

    At least the cops in Northern Virginia have a sense of humor, although some what black.... I don't drive I-66 out side the beltway much any more due to work location change, but I used to regularly see an unmarked car with the license plates that said

    " R U DUI".

    Then again if you are its probably to late!
  4. DragonRider


    Jun 6, 2002
    Was it a White Impala, I don't believe its a State Vehicle, based on the look of the driver and inside. It looked to be a former unmarked car from somewhere. Still has the white light and antenna on it. No other lights on it. I saw it last week on 66/Toll Road.

  5. SocomCen

    SocomCen Millennium Member

    Jul 29, 1999
    What happened to 'equal protection under the law?', this fine only applies to VA residents.
  6. USMC_G19

    USMC_G19 Ham Salad

    Dec 13, 2005
    Northern VA
    Mercy?? You must not drive around the beltway too much. If you aren't doing at least 70 they'll run you over!
  7. USMC_G19

    USMC_G19 Ham Salad

    Dec 13, 2005
    Northern VA
    Mercy?? You must not drive around the beltway too much. If you aren't doind at least 70 they'll run over your *****!!
  8. Carlitos


    Dec 19, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    Good point. This one may be struck down - if anyone challenges it.

    Only worthwhile part is increasing the penalty for "driving without a license" since few illegal aliens bother with licenses (or insurance) but they all drive (at least the ones I spoke with who told me they were illegal aliens).

    Of course, if you snuck into the USA accross the border and are not supposed to be here anyway, would you be considered a "VA Resident" for purpose of the fine?
  9. Jerseycitysteve


    Nov 11, 2004

    You are correct. I always exceed the speed limit and drive 60 to 65 otherwise I'd have to drive on the shoulder.

    Perhaps a few thousand dollar fines will do the trick for those who exceed 75 MPH. Driving that fast on a crowded road deserves severe punishment.
  10. They had Delegate Albo on Chris Core (local radio show, for those folks not from NOVA) this morning. He said something about the way Virginia law is written, the state can't charge user fees to out of state drivers.

    Where's reciprocity when you want it?
  11. Hunterjbb


    Feb 7, 2003
    Midlothian Va.
    it's pretty simple really.. don't want to pay a heavy fine.. don't drive fast, which in VA is an oxymoron cause if you don't drive fast your life is in much more danger then going slower will compensate.

    My normal 95 speed is about 70-75 never above. i try to stay only 5 miles above no matter what traffic is doing, it's difficult at best..

    The out of state thing, geez i know i've seen people blowing by the state police at 80 already.. So now they will give out more tickets?

    Should be interesting..

  12. golai


    Aug 16, 2004
    Looks like I picked the wrong time to buy that BMW 335 Turbo coupe. I guess the po po will have to catch me in order to give me a ticket.

    I'm kidding. But with respect to the non-DUI offenses, I could easily see judges who don't like the law convicting people of lesser offenses which don't include the fines. For example, suppose that you get ticketed for reckless driving for doing 76 in a 55. A judge could find you guilty for failing to obey a highway sign which carries a much lower fine than reckless driving.
  13. Several other states have implemented similar laws.

    But I believe they assess the fees to out of state drivers as well.
  14. lethal tupperwa

    lethal tupperwa

    Aug 20, 2002
    If you get caught, again, for driving without a licence or with a suspended one, you have to pay a three part fee.

    If you don't pay it your drivers licence (WHICH YOU DID NOT HAVE IN THE FIRST PLACE) will be suspended.

    How can this possibly work?
  15. Navy87Guy

    Navy87Guy Salty Dog

    Dec 4, 2004
    Stafford VA
    I guess this is like the way your Dad would always beat you harder than the neighbor kid when he caught you doing the same thing!

  16. .40Guy


    Oct 29, 2006
    N. Virginia
    VA Reckless Driving is no joke. As I understand it they almost never throw the book at you, but the maximum penalty can involve jail time and loss of license, and the charge can affect your security clearance status. I had to lay out $1200 for a lawyer, and plead down to improper operation. I sat in traffic court for two hours watching guys lose their licenses over speeding and reckless, mostly because they couldn't/wouldn't pay a lawyer.

    Nice system they have set up.. You can't talk to the prosecution without a lawyer. The alternative is to throw yourself on the mercy of the court, and as far as I saw, that means you ought to wear comfortable shoes that day, for the walk home.

    I still speed, like everybody else, but I watch that 20-MPH-over limit a lot closer these days! :motorcycle:
  17. lethal tupperwa

    lethal tupperwa

    Aug 20, 2002
    He got 6 reckless driving charges in one day.

    He got 1 year in the pen (state farm).

    He told me that they marched him out to a cornfield that he could not see the end of and he picked corn until it was too dark then he went inside and had to shuck the corn.

    He said he had never been in such good shape in his life and, "he was never coming back to Virginia".

    He said, "I'm on personal recognisance for 1'st degree Murder in the District."
  18. Navy87Guy

    Navy87Guy Salty Dog

    Dec 4, 2004
    Stafford VA
    It's 15 mph over in 65 and above zones!

  19. redware

    redware Ecdysiast

    Funny thing about automobiles...

    They don't know if their operators have a driver's license or not.

    All this silly little law is going to do is drive up the number of people who drive without a license. Not everyone can afford to pay exorbitant fines.
  20. Jerseycitysteve


    Nov 11, 2004
    Drive 20 miles over the posted limit in Virginia.

    Tell the trooper you don't have a license.

    See what happens.