This is similar to another recent thread but I wanted to hone in on a more rudimentary problem and one less about personal feelings. Atheists often state "I don't need a god to tell me what is moral." They often seem to be dodging the issue of how they then justify it, as if we're to assume we all know that there is a right and wrong and we know what it is. Which is actually quite convenient for atheists because most people do believe in some morality, both religious and non-religious. It isn't true though, a few prominent philosophers have questioned the idea of good and evil and people disagree all the time about what is moral. The other defense seems to be something in regards to how societies and their moralities evolve over time. This is cultural relativism, which it is a fact different cultures have different beliefs but that's not a justification as to why we'd be morally obligated to follow any of those beliefs and if we were obligated, that in itself would be another unjustified moral principle. Atheists require proof in God, which is fine, but I've yet to hear a good defense from atheists proving why we should be 'moral'. You being an atheist, convince me I'm obligated to follow this thing you call morality. I'm much more willing to accept that evolution and game theory has created this farce we call 'morality' and that the reality is we have no real obligation to follow it. We only should to appear that we are for the sake of social acceptance. I also think this might be the reason we don't have popular atheists saying 'morality is just some B.S. people made up, do whatever you can get away with'. I'm really not interested in personal feelings. I want to see logical arguments.