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Home invasion and beating by Police

Discussion in 'Civil Liberties Issues' started by jdavionic, Mar 21, 2012.

  1. jdavionic

    jdavionic NRA Member

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    This is a continuation of a discussion of a thread that I started in the carry section. Based on the lawsuit, it alleges that these officers were conducting a "personal investigation", entered this home, beat a man with autism in his home, searched his home without a warrant, took him back to the police station and beat him again to get a confession.

    If all true, it's pretty despicable.

    http://pennrecord.com/news/city-and-...n-with-autism/
     
  2. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    What you describe sounds very, very unlikely to be true. Contrary to the movies, beating people is the hardest way to get a confession, for one thing, so it is shockingly rare in real life.
     


  3. jdavionic

    jdavionic NRA Member

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    Interesting history with one of the officers. Here is another lawsuit from 2007 - False arrest,police brutality,...
    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCOURTS-paed-2_07-cv-02966/pdf/USCOURTS-paed-2_07-cv-02966-1.pdf

    Perhaps the others too...just haven't found anything on them yet.
     
  4. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

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    True. As learned by Medieval Catholicism and the Inquisitions, torture only gets you what you want to hear, not the information which you are seeking.
     
  5. Mister_Beefy

    Mister_Beefy Legal & Proper

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  6. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    Most officers I've worked with, including me, have been sued for civil rights violations - so? It's part of the job and getting more common. "perhaps the others too?" It's all in a computer database - all they have to do is put in their names to find every case they are a party to or ever have been.

    People can sue for anything - the agency I work for now just got sued because a parolee ran away from a halfway house...he didn't do anything to the person suing us, or even go to the city she lives in, but as the victim of the drunk driving accident that sent him to prison, she was so scared she wants money from the government to pay for everything from a new hosue to a car to "witness protection benefits" - that 100% true.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2012
  7. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    Then lies about police misconduct happen 1,000 times a day. Literally, probably a LOT more than that.

    I have defended probably thousands of lawsuits against police and corrections officers. I'm sure a thousand claimed misconduct. Do you know how many times my clients were actually found to have acted improperly? None so far.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2012
  8. Mister_Beefy

    Mister_Beefy Legal & Proper

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    don't make what I said untrue.
     
  9. RussP

    RussP Moderator

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    In your personal experience, what is the ratio of complaints with merit to those without merit?
     
  10. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

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    He doesn't need to help you what. You are pefectly capable of doing that on your own.
     
  11. Mister_Beefy

    Mister_Beefy Legal & Proper

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    sorry, my grammar wasn't a clear as it should have been.

    bren said blah blah blah None so far.

    what I meant in reply was

    that does not make what I said untrue.
     
  12. MarkM32

    MarkM32

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    I doubt this is true either. Maybe to some extent, but things always get blown up by someone trying to make a quick buck. I can say I've also had civil claims against myself and my department. Hell, I had someone try to sue me and my department because I went on a curb at an intersection. 2 lane road, roadway was loaded with cars, I popped on the curb to go around. Didn't hit the guy, but he felt like he was in serious danger because "I could have lost control at any minute." That's not the only time either. Lots of criminals are illedging some off the wall stuff to get out of their charges.
     
  13. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    What makes what you said untrue is that you have no direct knowledge of police and their conduct, so you have no basis for your statement.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2012
  14. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    It would be hard to estimate. Maybe 1 in 1,000 has merit. The rest are a combination of people trying to leverage their way out of trouble, not understanding the law, or lying for revenge.

    What was always strange to me, when I was a cop, was that the times I was most likely to get a complaint or lawsuit were the times when I gave somebody a break. My theory was that, because of their lack of knowledge and/or ego, they like to interpret getting a break from the police as the police being wrong.
     
  15. As I have written before, the level of professionalism depends on where you live.
    the San Antonio police are consummate professionals. I have a lot of respect for them. Rural America, not so much.
     
  16. jdavionic

    jdavionic NRA Member

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    So for those that think the claim is "fake", can you explain...
    • why wasn't the young man convicted of the crime that he 'confessed' to?
    • why didn't the cops show up to the resisting arrest hearing?
    • and even if the 'victim' did steal the cell phones, what gives the police the right to enter his home and search the premises without a warrant?
    Sorry, but I would think if the police were in the right on this one, the guy would be in jail or at least awaiting trial for the theft of the cell phones and resisting arrest.
     
  17. Mister_Beefy

    Mister_Beefy Legal & Proper

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    that's like saying because I've never been to paris and seen the eiffel tower, I can not declare that it is 1063 feet tall.

    oh wait, were talking about police misconduct and I mention the eiffel tower.

    (deep breath)


    STRAW MAN ARGUMENT!


    so because I have no direct knowledge of police and their conduct, I have no basis for my statement and therefore what I said is untrue.

    yet you have defended probably thousands of lawsuits against police and corrections officers, and seen what you're sure are a thousand claims of misconduct, and so far none have been true, therefore policemisconduct does not exist?

    because I'm saying it happens every day.

    and you're saying what I'm saying is untrue because I have no direct knowledge of police and their conduct.



    maybe russp can step in and educate me on coptalk logic here, because from where I'm looking, your argument is pretty weak.

    I would be more vehement in my protest, but if I even say boo to a coptalk goose I get an infraction.

    so I hope you have a wonderful night. nice conversing with you.

    (because whenever coptalkers are called out to back up their claims and provide anything more substantial than veiled insults and superior posturing.... they disappear)
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
  18. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    If you think that's a "straw man argument" you need to study what a straw man argument is a little more.

    A conclusion without a fact basis is pretty much the definition of "untrue".

    I CLEARLY did not say it doesn't exist - I even discussed when it does exist. That none of my clients have ever lost in court or been found to have engaged in misconduct doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I know cops who have engaged in misconduct, gone to prison, been fired, etc.

    Cops, lawyers, etc., have learned that when they state a conclusion, somebody is going to ask for the fact basis for the conclusion. Online we can't verify that your facts are true or not, but when you have no facts to state, you should expect to get called on it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
  19. RussP

    RussP Moderator

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    Since you invited...
    He agreed with you...that's weak?

    And here comes your inflammatory trolling statement.
    To refute Bren's contention about your knowledge, please answer these questions:
    Can you cite 365 cases of misconduct committed over 365 consecutive days that were successfully prosecuted? If yes, please do so.

    What do you consider misconduct?​
     
  20. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

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    Ah, yes, the Stawman Argument defense. Used frequently by people who don't know what it means when they are backed into a corner.

    Stawman -A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.<sup id="cite_ref-book_0-0" class="reference">[1]</sup> To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

    [​IMG]