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Hollow Points

Discussion in 'Black Rifle Forum' started by jonathangalt, May 1, 2011.

  1. jonathangalt

    jonathangalt

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    Feb 22, 2009
    greenwich, ct
    Do we need them for ARs? Trying to find a round that is safe for HD use?
     
  2. Broncbuster

    Broncbuster Dying Breed

    517
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    Jan 7, 2009
    Georgia USA
    I keep a mag full of 55GR hollow points just in case. But I still would not grab my AR, Mini 14 or AK as my first HD gun. Having others in the house I am worried about over penetration. Besides my pistol with a good light attached I keep a 18.5 in barrel Mossberg 500 12ga for HD. Now for outdoor perimeter or varmint sniping no worries with a carbine. Personally I think a pistol, shotgun and rifle should all be ready to go but what you pick up should vary on the task at hand.
     


  3. poodleshooter1

    poodleshooter1

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    May 3, 2005
    I don't think so. Tumbling and the resulting fragmentation of it breaking at it's canelure is more of a concern for me.
     
  4. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

    19,979
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    Sep 4, 2009
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  5. jonathangalt

    jonathangalt

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    Feb 22, 2009
    greenwich, ct
  6. JBnTX

    JBnTX Bible Thumper

    20,025
    4,175
    Aug 28, 2008
    Fort Worth Texas

    :wow:

    It amazes me to no end how many people actually believe
    this to be true!
     
  7. RWBlue

    RWBlue Mr. CISSP, CISA CLM

    23,523
    833
    Jan 24, 2004
    It depends.

    First off, I am not a fan of rifles inside the house/apt.. The barrel is too long. But lets assume we are talking about the one rifle person with no hand gun.

    Outside, I don't think it matters.

    Inside, is where it will count and only when you start thinking about who may be on the other side of the wall. Do you want a round that will rip through 6 walls to find the target OR are there friendlies on the other side of the wall?
     
  8. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    This has been discussed ad nauseum. Yes, larger caliber rifles like .308 can have a lot of penetration. A good .223/5.56 round like Hornady's 75-gr TAP will only penetrate about 9-10" in ballistic gel. Compare that to 11-14" for a typical handgun round. 12 ga buckshot penetrates a lot too. The thing about .223/5.56 is since it's breaking up even if a small piece does penetrate more it's not going to have much momentum. Contrast that to a 124gr or 230 pistol bullet still in one piece that has way more momentum.

    There is plenty of info out there about all this.

    http://www.steyr-aug.com/223forcqb.htm

    http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/results.html

    http://www.hornadyle.com/products/detaila8d3.html?id=130&sID=141

    "The 75 gr. bullet offers deeper penetration than the 55 and 60 grain TAP Urban® bullets yet still penetrates less than most law enforcement pistol bullets."
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2011
  9. GenoTac Ind.

    GenoTac Ind. |KYDEX GEAR>

    479
    1
    Jun 22, 2004
    Louisville, KY
    Per my own experience.

    5.56/.223 HP = penetrate LESS than round nose FMJ pistol calibers in liquid/gelatin like matter because it fragments within a foot of hitting matter. Now it's fragments can go futher.

    It goes right through dry matter, like drywall, as drywall thickness is minimal.
     
  10. glock031

    glock031

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    Jun 18, 2010
  11. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    Last edited: May 1, 2011
  12. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    Not just FMJ, JHPs too. But yeah, FMJs over penetrate ridiculously. Check out these vids of 45 ACP and 9mm FMJs tearing through gel blocks and keeping on going. This is why one doesn't use FMJ for defensive use. The 9mm is pretty impressive, not too different from the vaunted .45. If anything the 9mm was more impressive, IMO. But they both barely slowed down before exiting the block. What's interesting is assuming both vids were shot at the same frame rate, you can tell the 45 is significantly slower than the 9, as would be expected.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLPjTlj1pHk&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSrlItrsbvs&feature=related
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2011
  13. RyanNREMTP

    RyanNREMTP Inactive/Banned

    3,556
    4
    Jun 16, 2007
    Waco, Texas
    I keep a full mag of 64 grain tactical hollow points as my first mag for home defense. To me hollow point is better than full metal jackets for defense.
     
  14. WoodenPlank

    WoodenPlank Who?

    7,958
    3
    May 15, 2010
    NW Florida
    In wall material, any rifle round is going to penetrate. A LOT. Same goes for most handgun rounds. 12ga lead buckshot doesnt penetrate as much, but will still tear through several walls before stopping. Out of the group, though, 12GA will penetrate the least number of walls.

    No matter what your choice for HD, be sure of your target, what is beyond it, and what your home is constructed from. Even 5.56 can be stopped by a brick exterior, but the thin metal shell of a trailer isn't going to stop that 5.56 from punching its way out...and potentially into your NEIGHBOR's home, too.
     
  15. WoodenPlank

    WoodenPlank Who?

    7,958
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    May 15, 2010
    NW Florida
    That brake is going to make shooting indoors suck. The MB556K Surefire brake on my SBR is bad enough outdoors, let alone inside.

    If you're dead set on using your AR for HD use, invest in some good open tip ammo. If you have a 1/8 or 1/7 barrel, go 70+ grain. Don't get cheap **** like brown bear. Hornady, Federal, Winchester, Black Hills, etc are where you need to look. I am partial to the Hornady 5.56 LEO 75gr stuff in my SBR, personally, but YMMV. Look around your home, and figure out where your shoot/no shoot lanes are. A single miss inside a home with a rifle round can waste someone 6 walls over, in another room, an adjacent apartment, or even a neighboring home.
     
  16. jonathangalt

    jonathangalt

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    Feb 22, 2009
    greenwich, ct
    yea, CT doesn't allow flash hiders for some reason, looks like it's the g19 and pps for HD, that or i have an excuse to buy a shotty...
     
  17. WoodenPlank

    WoodenPlank Who?

    7,958
    3
    May 15, 2010
    NW Florida
    12ga is your friend for HD.
     
  18. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    A good .223 round (not some penetrator round or whatever) won't penetrate as much as any 9mm and up pistol round.

    Hornady 75gr TAP. Known for more penetration than lighter loads but even it doesn't look overly penetrative to me.
    [​IMG]

    I'm done explaining this. Tons of info out there if one seeks it.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2011
  19. EOD3

    EOD3

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    Oct 19, 2000
    Indiana
    Mossberg 590A1, ghost-ring sights, eight round magazine, side-saddle butt-stock, bayonet lug (if you think a spear is a good idea). Eight AA target shells in the magazine and four buckshot shells in the stock. Excellent HD gun and it's HIGH on the OMG scale. :shocked: