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Hodgdon Powder data.

Discussion in '10mm Reloading Forum' started by MCNETT, Aug 25, 2003.

  1. Glockadict

    Glockadict

    202
    0
    Sep 30, 2004
    Oklahoma
    I was wondering if anyone had load data for Longshot with 155Gr bullets?
     
  2. patmandu

    patmandu Old Fart Member

    14
    0
    Sep 25, 2005
    OKC
    Glockadict: I worked up a load with Longshot for 155 gr Rainier RN (copper plated) with 12.4 gr of Longshot, OAL 1.260, 1450 FPS.

    I've fired hundreds of them with no malfunctions at all. It's close to a full-house load with no flat primers, case bulges or other over-pressure signs. Fired in my full size Ported Witness with fully supported barrel & 22# Wolff recoil spring. I recommend back down 10% and work up. Be careful with other pistols with unsupported barrels.

    By the way, are Glock 10mms built like the 40 S&Ws with weak support at the ramp? I fired one at the range and it felt real nice, but I just wondered about the ramp cut. I noticed a lot of guys are using KKM aftermarket barrels.

    Good shooting, guys

    patmandu
     

  3. Glockadict

    Glockadict

    202
    0
    Sep 30, 2004
    Oklahoma
    I have not been in here for a little while, thanks for the help. I'm going to load some of these today. I have a KKM for my G20 too. I notice you are from OKC also. Do you shoot at H & H?
     
  4. patmandu

    patmandu Old Fart Member

    14
    0
    Sep 25, 2005
    OKC
    Hey Glock addict: Yes I am in OKC too. I sometimes shoot at H&H, but I sometimes shoot outside at the Canadian Valley Ranges out off I-40 near Banner Road (toward El Reno) I like shooting outside. It is a more relaxed invironment w/o all the cool cocked and locked dudes running around running the show. I can set up my chronograph or whatever I want. How can you tell anything about your loads if you can't clock them sometimes? Also, I just like the outdoors. I don't have to breathe the lead and smoke. I alos have an agreement with a friend who has a farm with a shooting range if I trade out by doing some upgrades to their range setup. New wood on the back stops, etc. I plan to build some benches and other things for her. Sorry, I can't take any visitors (yet) though. Darn.

    Let me know how you like the loads with the Longshot powder. I get a kick out of that load. It could go hotter, as I have never gone to the point of bulges or flat primers with it, but it already hurts my hand and I decided that it's battering my Witness as it is. I am about to work up another one with a 185 gr. bullet. I just have to find the time. I wish I lived on a farm like another buddy of mine. He loads about 3 rounds and goes outside and just fires them. He knows immediately if they are good or not and then goes back in and improves the load. It must be great to do it like that.

    Maybe we can meet out on Banner Road sometime. Let me know if you need directions to it.

    be cool!

    -pat (aka patman or patmandu)
    patcawyer@cox.net
     
  5. Glockadict

    Glockadict

    202
    0
    Sep 30, 2004
    Oklahoma
    I tried the loads you posted, and they are potent. I was wondering what primer you used? I used CCI 350 primers, and 12.4gr is the MAX load for me. I might back off to 12.3. I have not got a chance to chrono it yet.
     
  6. patmandu

    patmandu Old Fart Member

    14
    0
    Sep 25, 2005
    OKC
    Glock Addict: I also use the CCI 350 primers. I agree that the load doesn't need to be boosted any more. It might be safe to do so, but it is pretty hot like it is. I have worked up loads with other calibers and felt the need to push them until I found the limit and then backed off (38 super and 41 AE), and I feel the 10mm brass could safely handle more pressure, but I am content with it at the 12.4 gr load. I recommend anyone back off to 11.5 gr and then work up .2 grains at a time watching for over pressure signs. I still haven't worked on the 185 and 200 gr loads yet, but I will when I have time. I wish my work wasn't so demanding, I would do it tomorrow. I'm glad you tried this load. I think it will chrono to 1400 to 1450 fps in most guns. This is a real full house 10mm load and I think it is safe. I started using Hodgdon Longshot powder when I saw the little free Hodgdon load book and it listed loads for 40 S&W and on the list the Longshot surpassed the other powders by 200+ fps (if I remember correctly). I use it in several calibers now. It is very accurate.

    Nice to hear from you again.

    Pat in OKC
     
  7. During vacation I got to test fire some of my Longshot loads, and I was well pleased. I haven't done a lot of chrono testing, but it seems I can equal or surpass my Power Pistol loads, with less pressure. Oh yes!, much less flash also.

    Didn't do much in the way of accuracy testing either, but it does seem to shoot to point of aim, (very important when using fixed sights), and also seems to shoot fairly clean.

    I believe 2007 will be the year for 10mm and Longshot experimentation.:banana: Now if I could just find that empty brass.
     
  8. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm 10mm Advocate

    From 4" 1911

    175gr SWC
    8.4gr HS6
    WLP 1.260
    Starting load
    Est. 1098fps

    175gr SWC
    8.9gr HS6
    WLP 1.260
    .5gr under max
    Est. 1163fps

    No leading with either load. Cleaned easily with Hoppe's #9.
     
  9. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm 10mm Advocate

    Flattened primers on that second load with 8.9gr HS6. Load was .5gr under max. Use with caution.
     
  10. MakeMineA10mm

    MakeMineA10mm * * * * Millennium Member Lifetime Member

    1,955
    5
    Feb 13, 1999
    Central Illinois
    Years ago, I decided to mess with HS-6 in the 10. After a lot of study, I decided that HS-6 SHOULD have the perfect burning rate for the 10mm.

    Then, I searched through all the loading manuals and found that NONE of them gave as heavy a load or velocity, as what I thought they should give, considering how HS-6 compared to other similar powders. I tried a few test loads and found some similar stuff to you.

    Bottom line is that HS-6 will give about 80% of the performance of other powders, and does not live up to anticipated expectations considering its location in the burning rate chart. It's just one of those quirky situations where it doesn't work out...

    HS-7 on the other hand... :thumbsup:
     
  11. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm 10mm Advocate

    I'm picking up Longshot while in Green Bay this weekend. I'm going to burn up the rest of the HS6 in 45 Auto.
     
  12. brandon3155

    brandon3155

    230
    0
    Apr 26, 2008
    Pensacola, FL
    I've been loading 165gr plated bullets with 9.2gr of longshot, OAL 1.26" with winchester WLP primers, I cant see any deformation but can feel the case head is bulged while resizing.

    would it be safe to go up to 9.9 grains or do i really need to work up to it?

    I am using an autodisk and that is the only jump without weighing every charge.

    or should I load 10 at 9.5gr, 10 at 9.7gr, and 10 at 9.9gr?

    What is the water's method or recognizing overpressure?

    Farther up, there is a load of 10.2gr of LS, but it is a different primer, I may have answered my own question, but if anyone has interjections to add, they're welcome!

    Thanks.
     
  13. Bringsteen

    Bringsteen 10mm Shooter

    102
    0
    Dec 27, 2007
    I have already posted this, but I wanted to put it in the Hodgdon Powder data sticky so that people would know where to look.

    THESE DATA ARE NOT FROM A RELOADING GUIDE. YOU ASSUME ALL RESPONSIBILITY CONCERNING YOUR USE OF THESE DATA.

    After much theorizing, I decided to load Hodgdon Lil’Gun in the 10mm. My starting loads were based on a number of factors:
    --maximum working pressure for the 10mm (which, at 37,500, is lower in practice than some people realize);
    --Hodgdon’s various Lil’Gun loads for the .327 Federal, .38 Super, and .357 Magnum;
    --total grain capacities of the 10mm and the above calibers; and,
    --my experience with the 10mm’s slowest recommended powder, Accurate #9.

    These factors do not add up to an ability to perfectly predict the outcome. But I am happy to note that not only was I able to complete the testing safely, but I came up with some rather promising results.

    Components:
    --Hornady 180 grain XTP bullets;
    --New Starline brass;
    --CCI 350 Magnum Pistol Primers.

    Everything I read about Lil’Gun indicated that it requires a magnum primer and a heavy crimp. In preparing these loads, I seated and lightly crimped the bullets with a conventional seating/crimping die, then immediately put a heavy-duty crimp on them with a Lee Crimp die. I did the initial crimp before the heavy-duty crimp because some of the charges were slightly compressed. Incidentally, while Hodgdon has warned in the past that Lil’Gun should not be compressed, in the 2009 Hodgdon reloading manual Hodgdon published a compressed Lil’Gun load for the .38 Super. I loaded all cartridges to just under 1.260".

    As a baseline, I fired two strings of high-power Accurate #9 loads on the same day as the Lil'Gun loads. All strings were fired in the same pistol, my Colt Delta Elite Gold Cup. I used a 24 pound Wolf recoil spring, coupled with the original recoil spring plug, which incorporates a smaller, secondary spring. My Delta Elite does not have a fully-supported chamber.


    Accurate #9, 15 grains
    _ 1)_1331.0_ -32.6 f
    _ 2)_1366.0_ 2.4
    _ 3)_1370.0_ 6.4
    _ 4)_1373.0_ 9.4
    _ 5)_1365.0_ 1.4
    _ 6)_1354.0_ -9.6
    _ 7)_1360.0_ -3.6
    _ 8)_1368.0_ 4.4
    _ 9)_1370.0_ 6.4
    _ 10)_1379.0_ 15.4

    __ High:_1379.0
    __ Low:_1331.0
    __ E.S.:_ 48.0
    __ Ave.:_1363.6
    __ S.D.:_ 13.3
    __ 95%:_ ±10.0


    Accurate #9, 15.5 grains
    _ 1)_1393.0_ -7.9
    _ 2)_1417.0_ 16.1
    _ 3)_1398.0_ -2.9
    _ 4)_1395.0_ -5.9
    _ 5)_1405.0_ 4.1
    _ 6)_1410.0_ 9.1
    _ 7)_1399.0_ -1.9
    _ 8)_1413.0_ 12.1
    _ 9)_1396.0_ -4.9
    _ 10)_1383.0_ -17.9

    __ High:_1417.0
    __ Low:_1383.0
    __ E.S.:_ 34.0
    __ Ave.:_1400.9
    __ S.D.:_ 10.3
    __ 95%:_ ±7.8

    Hodgdon Lil’Gun, 15 grains
    _ 1)_1219.0_ -19.8
    _ 2)_1217.0_ -21.8
    _ 3)_1260.0_ 21.2
    _ 4)_1256.0_ 17.2
    _ 5)_1265.0_ 26.2
    _ 6)_1247.0_ 8.2
    _ 7)_1242.0_ 3.2
    _ 8)_1224.0_ -14.8
    _ 9)_1233.0_ -5.8
    _ 10)_1225.0_ -13.8

    __ High:_1265.0
    __ Low:_1217.0
    __ E.S.:_ 48.0
    __ Ave.:_1238.8
    __ S.D.:_ 17.7
    __ 95%:_ ±13.4

    Hodgdon Lil’Gun, 15.5 grains
    _ 1)_1250.0_ -5.3
    _ 2)_1254.0_ -1.3
    _ 3)_1267.0_ 11.7
    _ 4)_1227.0_ -28.3
    _ 5)_1286.0_ 30.7
    _ 6)_1272.0_ 16.7
    _ 7)_1266.0_ 10.7
    _ 8)_1216.0_ -39.3
    _ 9)_1238.0_ -17.3
    _ 10)_1277.0_ 21.7

    __ High:_1286.0
    __ Low:_1216.0
    __ E.S.:_ 70.0
    __ Ave.:_1255.3
    __ S.D.:_ 22.7
    __ 95%:_ ±17.1

    Hodgdon Lil’Gun, 16 grains
    _ 1)_1282.0_ -4.5
    _ 2)_1314.0_ 27.5
    _ 3)_1282.0_ -4.5
    _ 4)_1285.0_ -1.5
    _ 5)_1304.0_ 17.5
    _ 6)_1298.0_ 11.5
    _ 7)_1253.0_ -33.5
    _ 8)_1268.0_ -18.5
    _ 9)_1279.0_ -7.5
    _ 10)_1300.0_ 13.5

    __ High:_1314.0
    __ Low:_1253.0
    __ E.S.:_ 61.0
    __ Ave.:_1286.5
    __ S.D.:_ 18.1
    __ 95%:_ ±13.7

    Hodgdon Lil’Gun, 16.5 grains
    _ 1)_1246.0_ -47.7
    _ 2)_1323.0_ 29.3
    _ 3)_1286.0_ -7.7
    _ 4)_1310.0_ 16.3
    _ 5)_1320.0_ 26.3
    _ 6)_1297.0_ 3.3
    _ 7)_1286.0_ -7.7
    _ 8)_1282.0_ -11.7
    _ 9)_1273.0_ -20.7
    _ 10)_1314.0_ 20.3

    __ High:_1323.0
    __ Low:_1246.0
    __ E.S.:_ 77.0
    __ Ave.:_1293.7
    __ S.D.:_ 24.0
    __ 95%:_ ±18.1


    These results are quite promising. The fired brass and primers looked very healthy. As noted earlier, I fired these in a pistol without a fully-supported chamber. While I often see “Glocksmiles” (even though it is a Colt) when shooting high-power 800-X loads, there were none to be found from the Lil’Gun loads. An average of 1293 is nothing to write home about, particularly considering the 1400 fps average in the 15.5 grain Accurate #9 load. But the fact is that Lil’Gun works in the 10mm! I don’t have time right now, but I am interested in moving up .5 grain to 1 grain.

    I hope that this information is valuable.
     
  14. Bringsteen

    Bringsteen 10mm Shooter

    102
    0
    Dec 27, 2007
    As with my earlier post, I have already posted this, but I wanted to make sure that it was placed in a sticky.

    The new data are interesting and a little confusing. Once again, I used 180 grain Hornady XTP's, new brass, handloaded each charge, and put a heavy crimp on the cases. As you can see, the 17 grain charges were slightly faster than the 17.5 grain charges.


    Hodgdon Lil’Gun, 17.0 grains
    _ 1)_1409.0_ 13.3
    _ 2)_1402.0_ 6.3
    _ 3)_1434.0_ 38.3
    _ 4)_1371.0_ -24.7
    _ 5)_1408.0_ 12.3
    _ 6)_1397.0_ 1.3
    _ 7)_1419.0_ 23.3
    _ 8)_1373.0_ -22.7
    _ 9)_1378.0_ -17.7
    _ 10)_1366.0_ -29.7

    __ High:_1434.0
    __ Low:_1366.0
    __ E.S.:_ 68.0
    __ Ave.:_1395.7
    __ S.D.:_ 22.9
    __ 95%:_ ±17.3

    Hodgdon Lil’Gun, 17.5 grains
    _ 1)_1351.0_ -37.8
    _ 2)_1399.0_ 10.2
    _ 3)_1428.0_ 39.2
    _ 4)_1414.0_ 25.2
    _ 5)_1392.0_ 3.2
    _ 6)_1337.0_ -51.8
    _ 7)_1383.0_ -5.8
    _ 8)_1381.0_ -7.8
    _ 9)_1414.0_ 25.2
    _ 10)_1390.0_ 0.2

    __ High:_1428.0
    __ Low:_1337.0
    __ E.S.:_ 91.0
    __ Ave.:_1388.8
    __ S.D.:_ 29.8
    __ 95%:_ ±24.3


    What is frustrating is that the highest average velocity (1395.7) is actually lower than the highest average velocity using Accurate #9 (1400.9). But the maximum velocity with the Lil'Gun loads was higher (1434) than the #9 loads (1417). I will probably experiment with using a slightly lighter crimp and dropping down by a few tenths of a grain. It may be that compressing Lil'Gun in the 10mm doesn't do any good. Compression loads work for some powder/cartridge combinations, and not for others. I will also try to load them just a little bit longer, but the need for reliability dictates that I only stretch them by a few thousands of an inch, so it may not make any difference.
     
  15. SDGlock23

    SDGlock23 Glockoholic

    Very interesting data indeed. 180g @ 1400 fps ain't no slouch!
     
  16. Bringsteen

    Bringsteen 10mm Shooter

    102
    0
    Dec 27, 2007
    Just placing this in the sticky.

    Here are some more data for Hodgdon Lil'Gun in the 10mm. For this set of tests, my protocol was essentially the same: new Starline brass, CCI 350 magnum primers, hand weigh each charge, et cetera. I tested some slightly different powder charges and used both standard and heavy crimps. I also fired a string through my Smith & Wesson 610. Some of the strings do not include 10 shots because I got some sunlight-related error readings.

    Hodgdon Lil'Gun, 17 grains, Standard Crimp
    1) 1427.0
    2) 1371.0
    3) 1345.0
    4) 1348.0
    5) 1360.0
    6) 1358.0
    7) 1347.0
    8) 1369.0

    High: 1427.0
    Low: 1345.0
    E.S.: 82.0
    Ave.: 1365.6
    S.D.: 26.7
    95%: ±23.9

    Hodgdon Lil'Gun, 17 grains, Heavy Crimp
    1) 1355.0
    2) 1366.0
    3) 1325.0
    4) 1320.0
    5) 1355.0
    6) 1347.0
    7) 1361.0
    8) 1348.0
    9) 1341.0
    10) 1308.0

    High: 1366.0
    Low: 1308.0
    E.S.: 58.0
    Ave.: 1342.6
    S.D.: 19.0
    95%: ±14.3

    Hodgdon Lil'Gun, 16.8 grains, Standard Crimp
    1) 1397.0
    2) 1362.0
    3) 1357.0
    4) 1364.0
    5) 1383.0
    6) 1341.0
    7) 1351.0
    8) 1342.0

    High: 1397.0
    Low: 1341.0
    E.S.: 56.0
    Ave.: 1362.13
    S.D.: 19.48

    Hodgdon Lil'Gun, 16.8 grains, Heavy Crimp
    1) 1358.0
    2) 1314.0
    3) 1350.0
    4) 1327.0
    5) 1320.0
    6) 1333.0
    7) 1315.0
    8) 1366.0
    9) 1316.0
    10) 1323.0

    High: 1366.0
    Low: 1314.0
    E.S.: 52.0
    Ave.: 1332.2
    S.D.: 19.1
    95%: ±14.4

    Hodgdon Lil'Gun, 17 grains, Heavy Crimp, Smith & Wesson 610
    1) 1448.0
    2) 1432.0
    3) 1518.0
    4) 1418.0
    5) 1363.0
    6) 1421.0

    High: 1518.0
    Low: 1363.0
    E.S.: 155.0
    Ave.: 1433.33
    S.D.: 50.44


    Ultimately, I am disappointed with Lil'Gun in the 10mm. Of course, I never expected world-shattering velocities. But I was hopeful that I would see very good velocities with good shot-to-shot velocity consistency. Unfortunately, the consistency is terrible. Lil'Gun is the superstar in the .357 Magnum and is great in many magnum cartridges. It just doesn't look like the right propellant for the 10mm. It may be possible to get great velocities and consistency in the Smith & Wesson 610 by loading the cartridges longer than 1.260". But in the automatics, you usually can't do that and expect reliability.

    If someone has success with Lil'Gun in the 10mm, or even an interesting theory about what to try, please post it.
     
  17. SDGlock23

    SDGlock23 Glockoholic

    Hodgdon Longshot, 9.7grs
    175gr Winchester Silvertip HP
    Starline Nickle 1.260" Fed 150

    Stock Glock 20
    85 degrees with skin melting humidity
    Shooting Chrony F-1

    Avg= 1365 fps - 724 ft-lbs

    Ever so slight Glock belly, nothing abnormal at all. This load frags like mad when fired into water jugs. Jacketing was found in 2nd and 3rd jugs, 3 jug penetration.
     
  18. Waffentomas

    Waffentomas Semper Fidelis Millennium Member

    121
    0
    May 5, 1999
    Blue State
    10.2gr of Longshot, under a Nosler 170gr JHP (no longer made).

    New Nickle RP brass
    WLP
    Wilson Combat CQB
    Rainy and 45 degrees, 1200ft elevation.

    Average 1392 fps.

    A pretty hot load, with 5 of 10 casings bulging/smiling. Primers are pretty flat. I would not recommend this load, as the over-pressure signs are significant. Probably 10gr is tops, 9.8 for a Glock stock barrelled gun.
     
  19. SDGlock23

    SDGlock23 Glockoholic

    Glock 20
    9.5grs Longshot, 180gr Precision Delta FMJ
    New Starline brass
    1.260"
    Fed LP
    roughly 80 degrees outside

    5 shot average: 1260 FPS / 635 Ft-lbs
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2010