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Hodgdon Powder data.

Discussion in '10mm Reloading Forum' started by MCNETT, Aug 25, 2003.

  1. MCNETT

    MCNETT Load Developer Lifetime Member

    Use this thread to post Hodgdon powder data.
     
  2. MCNETT

    MCNETT Load Developer Lifetime Member

    Here is some info from my work with Longshot. Always start 1.0gr lower and work up in .2gr increments until you see pressure signs. (Waters' method):
    Starline Brass, CCI 350 primers, 1.26" OAL. 10 shot avg. G20 85F and 5000ft elevation.

    135gr Nosler 13.2gr LS - 1542fps
    165 GSHP 10.4gr LS - 1356fps
    180 GSHP 9.6gr LS - 1294fps
    200 XTP 8.2gr LS - 1172fps

    These are loads that I have worked up to and are under 37,500psi when I had them tested. I hope this helps!
    -Mike
     


  3. turq

    turq

    48
    0
    Aug 21, 2003
    N.E. Oregon
    Mr. MCNETT, I got my KKM[5 5/8"]Bbl and a 4lb jug of Longshot Horn 180 HAP bullets loaded 9.0 CCI350 Horn cases They click. Used a rear Protekor leather bag for a rest at 50 yrds 10 shots were sub pie plate easily {I'm still getting used to this g20} Several double touching holes.Empties kick about 15-20' at 4 0'clock. The KKM chamber leaves the fired cases nice and straight. No bulge to speak of I'm happy. Now; a g29?

    Oh yeah the HAP recovered from soft rock free dirt about one third mushroomed sorry the measurements are elsewhere. Looks to be a great penatrator bullet.
     
  4. Does anyone have any data for loading Hodgdon Titegroup with the lighter 10MM bullets? Their website only shows info for the 180 and 200 grain bullets.

    Titegroup is one of my favorite powders in 9MM and .40 and I'd like to use it in the 10MM as well.

    Dave
     
  5. spongeman66

    spongeman66

    267
    0
    Apr 30, 2003
    DFW
    It is a very fine 'ball' powder. It is supposed to be faster than H110, and I read somewhere that it was approximately the same as AA #9. With AA#9 you seem to get pretty good velocity, and you can't get too much powder in there to cause too much pressure.?.?.?.
    Powder valley has 8lb H108 for $50....I bought it for 458 SOCOM, but it seems to be decent (and safe) for 10mm.
    A 10mm casing will hold approximately 23.0 grains of H108 full to the rim.
    I was able to fit about 18 grains of H108 behind a Rem 180 FMJ FP bullet. This was an extremely compressed load. The FMJ did not deform, but some bullets COL was springing back to ~1.270+
    I was able to fit about 14 grains behind a 200XTP without deforming the bullet. Up to 16.5 grains would fit, but the HP was swaged nearly closed.

    Looking at my notes back in May:
    Stock G20
    WLP primers (Back before I knew about CCI 350s)
    COL ~1.260, H108, 200 XTP
    2 shots each loading
    grains FPS, FPS
    10.0 830, 830
    10.5 852, 851
    11.0 905, 902
    11.5 931, 940
    12.0 989, 995
    12.5 1036, 1010
    13.0 1075, 1046
    13.5 1118, 1076

    Notes from Early July:
    G20 w/6" Jarvis
    COL ~1.260, H108, 200 XTP
    1 Shot each
    grains FPS
    13.5 1106
    14.1 1112
    14.5 1145
    15.1 1234
    15.7 1256
    16.1 1271
    Both of these sessions, I didn't know about Waters' Head expansion measurements. All I know is that NONE of the brass had smileys!

    I have recently re-visited this powder, and I have built, but not shot, up to 18.0 grains behind a Rem FMJ FN. I will report on these loads the next time I break out the chronograph.

    Has anybody else played with this powder?
     
  6. spongeman66

    spongeman66

    267
    0
    Apr 30, 2003
    DFW
    Using the Waters' method these show similar or less head expansion than DoubleTap in MY gun.
    Stock G29
    New Winchester Brass
    Rem 2 1/2 primers (Be careful if using CCI-350s)
    Remington 180 FMJ
    COL 1.265"
    ~ 80F
    5-shot strings
    12.7 HS-7 Lo=1192 Hi=1213 ES=21 A=1202 SD=9
    12.9 HS-7 Lo=1209 Hi=1255 ES=46 A=1237 SD=18

    Doesn't beat 800X, but not bad.
    I did load workups from 10.2 grains. I do NOT recommend HS-7 for downloading. It doesn't seem to burn cleanly at the lower pressures. It leaves powder in the barrel and if you had a tight chamber you might have difficulty.

    BTW, if anybody is interested:
    17.0 grains of H108 behind a Rem 180 FMJ CCI-350s produce similar head expansion to DoubleTap. From a 5" 1911 produce 1308 FPS. This is an compressed load, and will deform 180 hollow points.
     
  7. 9 and 10 mm Fan

    9 and 10 mm Fan

    110
    0
    Jan 6, 2004
    Michigan
    I just got back from shooting 180 gr XTP's over 9.6 gr of Long Shot through my G-20 with a stock length KKM barrel. This is now the most accurate full power load that I have shot with the G-20.

    Most of you can shoot better than me, but for what it is worth, shooting off hand this load put 11 of a 20 round group inside a 3 inch circle at 60 feet. The balance of rounds were within a 7 inch circle on the same center. This is definitely a load to try in a G-20.
     
  8. spongeman66

    spongeman66

    267
    0
    Apr 30, 2003
    DFW
    More HS-7 Data. I am a little disappointed at how dirty it is, and the low velocities I got.

    Code:
    180 Remington FMJFP
    New Winchester Brass 
    Rem 2 1/2 primers
    COL 1.265"
    ~ 55F
    9 or 10 shot strings on all barrels
    
    12.9 HS-7
    VERY Dirty. Probably needs Magnum primers. Some rounds wouldn't fully
    chamber without help in all barrels except the 1911.
    Gun/barrel      Lo   Hi ES  Avg SD
    G29           1185 1229 44 1206 14
    G20           1255 1287 32 1268 8
    1911 5"       1265 1330 65 1299 21
    G20 Jarvis 6" 1337 1399 62 1371 20
    
    10.8 HS-7
    200 XTP
    COL 1.280"
    Very Dirty. Needs Magnum primers? This load could prossibly be
    increased a little. I don't think it will beat 800X though...
    Gun/barrel      Lo   Hi ES  Avg SD
    G29           1054 1075 21 1064 8
    G20           1095 1141 46 1114 12
    1911 5"       1117 1188 71 1151 19
    G20 Jarvis 6" 1143 1189 46 1170 13
    
    Stay Safe!
    Sponge
     
  9. spongeman66

    spongeman66

    267
    0
    Apr 30, 2003
    DFW
    HS-7 burns cleaner with Magnum primers. Bass Pro didn't have a full 1K of Federal 155s, so I bought 1K of CCI-350s.

    ~80F
    180 Remington FMJ
    CCI-350
    COL 1.265"
    Used Winchester brass
    5-shot groups from a G29 Stock Barrel
    12.0 HS-7 Lo=1166, Hi=1233, ES=67, A=1207, SD=29
    12.2 HS-7 Lo=1173, Hi=1236, ES=63, A=1195, SD=28 -DROP

    I would choose 12.0 because 12.2 had a velocity drop, and 12.4 had a slight smiley.

    I was running out of powder, so I didn't get to shoot very many rounds with 200XTPs:

    200 XTP
    CCI-350
    COL 1.265"
    Used Winchester Brass
    3-shot group from a stock G29
    10.0 HS-7 Lo=1051, Hi=1060, ES=9, A=1054, SD=4

    Stay Safe!
    Sponge
     
  10. I just started using Longshot for my G20 and S&W 610. I realy like the powder and it's very clean for me. In the S&W 610 I'm using 10.0 gr Longshot under a 180gr JHP and have no signs of pressure. That is one of the things I have noticed about Longhshot is that it runs lower pressure than most other powders at higher velocities. I'm loading 44mag rounds with it now and think it's great. Going to place an order for an 8lb. jug this week for it at Powdervally.com, possibly 2.
     
  11. G-20er

    G-20er MIL-DOT MASTER

    90
    0
    Aug 12, 2004
    California
    Learned something very interesting today while using LongShot Powder. For starters it doesn't even come close to Mikes DoubleTap 200gr. XTP loads. See other post for details.

    Also I learned that I can actually get the same velocity out of 8.2 grains as I can get out of 9 grains. Note: 9 grains is not worth the extra pressure. Check out 8.5 grains...the velocity actually is lower than the 8.2 grain load. What the heck over? Keep an eye on the ES also. Looks like I'll keep the 8.2 grain load. I tested it twice because I couldn't believe that the 8.5 was actually slower than the 8.2

    G-20 with standard length KKM barrel and 22 pound recoil spring with tungsten guide rod. All bullets fired were 200 grain XTP with a OAL of 1.270. New Starline brass and CCI 350 Mag primers. Note: all brass still flew 10-12 feet to the right. Wish I would have ordered the 24 pound spring.

    8.2 grains:

    GROUP #3
    1) 1185.0 14.8
    2) 1167.0 -3.2
    3) 1192.0 21.8
    4) 1142.0 -28.2 ƒ
    5) 1179.0 8.8
    6) 1171.0 0.8
    7) 1160.0 -10.2
    8) 1166.0 -4.2
    9) 1171.0 0.8
    High: 1192.0
    Low: 1142.0
    E.S.: 50.0
    Ave.: 1170.2
    S.D.: 14.4
    95%: ±12.0





    8.5 grains:

    GROUP #14
    1) 1121.0 -22.0
    2) 1138.0 -5.0
    3) 1174.0 31.0
    4) 1178.0 35.0
    5) 1138.0 -5.0
    6) 1145.0 2.0
    7) 1151.0 8.0
    8) 1118.0 -25.0
    9) 1160.0 17.0
    10) 1107.0 -36.0
    High: 1178.0
    Low: 1107.0
    E.S.: 71.0
    Ave.: 1143.0
    S.D.: 23.4
    95%: ±19.0





    9 grains:

    GROUP #7
    1) 1183.0 5.6
    2) 1156.0 -21.4
    3) 1194.0 16.6
    4) 1172.0 -5.4
    5) 1182.0 4.6
    High: 1194.0
    Low: 1156.0
    E.S.: 38.0
    Ave.: 1177.4
    S.D.: 14.2
    95%: ±18.0



    Listed below is further information at 8.5 grains of LongShot. The only thing that I changed was the OAL of loaded rounds.

    8.5 with OAL of 1.25:

    GROUP #12
    1) 1117.0 -7.4
    2) 1077.0 -47.4 ƒ
    3) 1146.0 21.6
    4) 1142.0 17.6
    5) 1154.0 29.6
    6) 1104.0 -20.4
    7) 1132.0 7.6
    8) 1123.0 -1.4
    9) 1136.0 11.6
    10) 1114.0 -10.4
    High: 1154.0
    Low: 1077.0
    E.S.: 77.0
    Ave.: 1124.4
    S.D.: 22.6
    95%: ±18.0




    8.5 with OAL of 1.26:

    GROUP #13
    1) 1170.0 23.8
    2) 1132.0 -14.2
    3) 1166.0 19.8
    4) 1145.0 -1.2
    5) 1140.0 -6.2
    6) 1151.0 4.8
    7) 1130.0 -16.2
    8) 1115.0 -31.2 ƒ
    9) 1161.0 14.8
    10) 1152.0 5.8
    High: 1170.0
    Low: 1115.0
    E.S.: 55.0
    Ave.: 1146.2
    S.D.: 17.2
    95%: ±14.0



    8.5 with OAL of 1.270:

    GROUP #14
    1) 1121.0 -22.0
    2) 1138.0 -5.0
    3) 1174.0 31.0
    4) 1178.0 35.0
    5) 1138.0 -5.0
    6) 1145.0 2.0
    7) 1151.0 8.0
    8) 1118.0 -25.0
    9) 1160.0 17.0
    10) 1107.0 -36.0
    High: 1178.0
    Low: 1107.0
    E.S.: 71.0
    Ave.: 1143.0
    S.D.: 23.4
    95%: ±19.0


    By looking at the E.S. this load prefers the 1.260 length.




    Below is at 9 grains with slight change in OAL:


    9 gr. with OAL of 1.270:

    GROUP #7
    1) 1183.0 5.6
    2) 1156.0 -21.4
    3) 1194.0 16.6
    4) 1172.0 -5.4
    5) 1182.0 4.6
    High: 1194.0
    Low: 1156.0
    E.S.: 38.0
    Ave.: 1177.4
    S.D.: 14.2
    95%: ±18.0



    9gr. with OAL of 1.260:

    GROUP #8
    1) 1169.0 -3.6
    2) 1121.0 -51.6 ƒ
    3) 1187.0 14.4
    4) 1210.0 37.4
    5) 1176.0 3.4
    High: 1210.0
    Low: 1121.0
    E.S.: 89.0
    Ave.: 1172.6
    S.D.: 32.6
    95%: ±41.0


    As you can see the E.S. got worse with this load as the bullet was seated closer to top of powder charge. Do not recommend this load due to no real advantage in velocity over the 8.2 grain load.
     
  12. BuffaloBo

    BuffaloBo

    278
    0
    Jun 22, 2004
    G-20er:

    Didn't our esteemed colleague Clark over at the "Reloading forum" have some warnings about blowing out a case using Longshot? I thought I read his words in a post of how just a slight variance in charge caused a case blowout? Would Longshot be the Hodgdon powder of choice in 10mm? I ask because I have zero experience using Hodgdon pistol powders.:)
     
  13. G-20er

    G-20er MIL-DOT MASTER

    90
    0
    Aug 12, 2004
    California
    I didn't have any signs of over pressure up to 9 grain with the 200 gr. XTP. So I don't think there is a problem to go over max listed. However, I don't see any reason to either. The more powder I added the velocity never really went up. This speed of powder with the heavy 200gr. bullets is at it's limit at 1170-1180 fps out of the standard length barrel.

    My experience is that I need to go to a slightly slower burning powder to get a little more velocity. Using max loads of LongShot with the 200gr XTP I still had about .090 gap between top of powder and base of bullet which tells me I can and should go with a slower powder (takes up more room). I prefer 98%-100% load density.

    My next powder to try for this 200gr XTP bullet is 13-13.5 gr. of AA#9. I hear it meters well and load density should be perfect. CCI Mag primers will be used. Looking for a goal of 1200 fps.

    If your happy with 1170 fps from a 200 gr. projectile, I would say LongShot is a great powder. Meters very well, burns clean with mag primers and is the only choice I would use from Hodgdon in the 10mm with heavy bullets. I hear HS7 burns dirty which is not what I want when I'm shooting 300 rounds in one day at the range with tight clearances on a KKM barrel.

    Still can't wait to reload using AA#9.
     
  14. G-20er

    G-20er MIL-DOT MASTER

    90
    0
    Aug 12, 2004
    California
    Did more testing with LongShot this past weekend using slightly more crimp to match factory crimp specifications. I was very surprised at the increase in velocity.

    G-20 with standard length barrel
    Starline Brass
    200gr. XTP Bullets
    CCI 350 Primers
    OAL 1.250
    OAT was 65 degrees F.


    8.2 grains of LongShot:

    GROUP #11
    1) 1191.0 -27.2
    2) 1234.0 15.8
    3) 1213.0 -5.2
    4) 1223.0 4.8
    5) 1254.0 35.8 ƒ
    6) 1197.0 -21.2
    7) 1208.0 -10.2
    8) 1233.0 14.8
    9) 1231.0 12.8
    10) 1199.0 -19.2
    High: 1254.0
    Low: 1191.0
    E.S.: 63.0
    Ave.: 1218.2
    S.D.: 20.0
    95%: ±16.0
     
  15. BuffaloBo

    BuffaloBo

    278
    0
    Jun 22, 2004
    As promised, I gathered some data (yawn) using Hodgdon Universal Clays.

    Setup was:
    G20 using KKM 5" barrel
    CCI Standard Large Primers
    Winchester nickel brass
    COL was 1.25"

    180 gr FMJ Winchester

    (5.8 gr Universal) -10% max (as per Hodgdon)
    7 shot sample:
    Avg: 1014
    Std Dev: 24
    High: 1053
    Low: 989

    (6.4 gr Universal) max (as per Hodgdon)
    7 shot sample:
    Avg: 1123
    Std Dev: 6
    High: 1128
    Low: 1113






    200 gr FMJ/FP Hornady

    (5.3 gr Universal) -10% max (as per Hodgdon)
    7 shot sample:
    Avg: 963
    Std Dev: 18
    High: 989
    Low: 932

    (5.9 gr Universal) max (as per Hodgdon)
    7 shot sample:
    Avg: 1031
    Std Dev: 13
    High: 1053
    Low: 1017

    (6.4 gr Universal) +10% max (as per Hodgdon)
    7 shot sample:
    Avg: 1105
    Std Dev: 13
    High: 1053
    Low: 1017







    Psst! I'm gonna sneak in some 40 data here also.


    Setup was:
    G20 using Federal barrel @ standard length
    CCI Standard Small Primers
    Federal brass
    COL was 1.125"


    180 gr FMJ Winchester

    (5.2 gr Universal) -10% max (as per Hodgdon)
    7 shot sample:
    Avg: 1014
    Std Dev: 19
    High: 1041
    Low: 993


    (5.8 gr Universal) max (as per Hodgdon)
    Avg: 1092
    Std Dev: 17
    High: 1114
    Low: 1064

    (6.2 gr Universal) +10% max (as per Hodgdon)
    Avg: 1114
    Std Dev: 15
    High: 1135
    Low: 1093



    200 gr FMJ/FP Hornady

    (4.2 gr Universal) -10% max (as per Hodgdon)
    Avg: 831
    Std Dev: 23
    High: 863
    Low: 797

    (4.7 gr Universal) max (as per Hodgdon)
    Avg: 936
    Std Dev: 18
    High: 956
    Low: 900


    Some observations:

    I didn't expect much from this powder and frankly I wasn't disappointed! In some samples, pressure signs manifesting themselves in "smiley's" came on quite early. So, I had to scrub a few samples for safety.

    The 10mm cartridge was tolerant with this powder, but it was not the case for .40. For the 180 gr 40 SW, don't look beyond about 1050 fps, or else you're flirting with bad pressure signs. The numbers for 200 gr 40SW are too low for serious velocities, but showed no signs of pressure either.

    I've heard it said that Universal was the answer to the aged and decrepid Alliant Unique. To be honest, I didn't notice any cleaner burning and certainly didn't notice better velocities with Universal. To its credit, it does meter somewhat better than Unique, though.

    Well, my results show that this powder is well suited as a mild plinking powder as it was intended to be. I have been surprised with certain other powders with supposedly similiar burning speeds and have exploited them with no signs of sacrificing safety.
     
  16. G-20er

    G-20er MIL-DOT MASTER

    90
    0
    Aug 12, 2004
    California
    oh my gosh...I read the entire post...not that I gave a care about the cheasy powder your wasting your time with, I was hoping to hear some good stories. This post is way to noraml...is this your other personality? It has got to be....hello, BuffaloBo where did you go.


    ;f


    Can't you see your going the wrong direction on the powder burn speed chart? I'm still curious as of what powder is your favorite and why.
     
  17. BuffaloBo

    BuffaloBo

    278
    0
    Jun 22, 2004
    Well, the reason why I checked this powder out is not to exclusively see what it can do in 10mm, but to see what it can do in a variety of calibers. I shoot a total of 5 pistol calibers. I check out powders not primarily for raw speed, but more so for versatility, or in this case "Universal-ity" (pun intended).

    It is argued that Universal is the heir apparent of the "lowly" Unique. Since they are similiar, I thougth to see how they compare. I wasn't straying but a tiny bit the other way of the burn rate chart. I hope you don't think that I'd be crazy enough to push this powder to extreme limits to show that it's "possible". If YOU don't feel comfortable in pushing where it seems possible, I certainly won't call you a wuss.;)

    No, I don't have another personality. I believe, however, that certain powders that I've worked with previously had the ability to be pushed farther than what are listed by conservative compilers of data.

    What kind of stories were you hoping to hear, anyway? I consider myself to be a thorough and safety conscious field tester. I examine EVERY case thrown from a pistol for signs of trouble. BTW, I know that you're being humorous. :)

    My favorite powder? -Don't have just one. Included among them are (not in any particular order): Blue Dot, Winchester Super Field, AA#7, Unique, and Winchester 231. If I get a single powder to perform well in at least 3 cartridges, I am well pleased. All of the above, with the special exception of W231, which is relegated to low pressure plinkers for powder puff 40's and 38 specials, leave me feeling well pleased.

    If I was to be given the choice of a single powder to use, I'd give the nod to either Unique, or then to WSF.

    Oh, and by the way, to anyone who may be interested, MY results show that Unique trounces Universal.;f ;a
     
  18. G-20er

    G-20er MIL-DOT MASTER

    90
    0
    Aug 12, 2004
    California
    BuffaloBo,

    What does Unique or WSF powder have over the 5 powders I listed as my favorites? I Would like to hear why these are your top two choices for the 10mm?
     
  19. BuffaloBo

    BuffaloBo

    278
    0
    Jun 22, 2004
    I thought I made myself clear in my previous post?:)

    I honestly couldn't contrast or compare your five choices with anything I've used because I've never used any of your choices.

    My choices come down to a compromise between versatility and velocity.

    In 9m using a 124 Gold Dot:

    Unique: 1180 fps @ 6.0 gr
    WSF: 1260 fps @ 6.2 gr


    In 40 using a 180 gr FMJ:

    Unique: 1107 fps @ 6.9 gr
    WSF: 1086 fps @ 6.6 gr


    In 357 Sig using a 124 Gold Dot:

    Unique: 1401 fps @ 8.0 gr
    WSF: 1418 fps @ 8.4 gr


    Finally, my results for 10mm are recorded in this forum for inspection.

    As you can see, these are very good numbers. They may not be the absoulute TOP numbers to be had, but it shows you that these 2 powders are capable of excellent results.

    Remember, I also mentioned Blue Dot and AA#7 as favorites also. Blue Dot is excellent in all except 9mm. AA#7 has given extraordinary results in all of the above, with the exception of 2 little things. First, it requires more charge than any other powder I've used for similiar effect. Second, I noticed slight "smilies" when I started to push the 40's.

    Won't you share your reasonings with us?:)