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High Peformance Tires & Vibration

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by M&P15T, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

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    O.k.

    I've got these silly, 10K tread-life, summer only, super high performance Pirelli tires on my car, which are part of the factory Brembo brake/suspension/wheel & tire package. Unfortuantely, I had to have 3 patches for punctures in my front tires, one in one, and two in the other. Not the car or tires fault, just bad ju-ju.

    Despite having them balanced, and then re-balanced, I could not get rid of a steering wheel shake. Nothing is more annoying to me, so (fortunately) a fellow NoVa Mustang club member sold me two OEM tires he had taken off his (identical) car, and I had them installed on mine today.

    Presto, no more wheel shimmy.

    Why is that? Is there something peculiar about these 19", low-profile hyper-tires that cause patches to imbalance them, to the point of not being correctable? Is it not a balance issue, but rather an out-of-round issue?

    The money's already spent, and I'm happy as hell with the results, but I still would love to understand why they had to be replaced.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2012
  2. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

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    Maybe it's the tire composition itself that causes these shakes and not a balance issue. Don't these super hi-po tires come with extremely stiff sidewalls than tires that aren't as highly rated?
     

  3. 427

    427

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    I had issues like that, too. I've come to the conclusion that super-soft, sticky tires weren't meant to be repaired.
     
  4. SC Tiger

    SC Tiger Big, educated kitty cat!

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    My first guess would be they weren't balanced correctly or you threw a wheel weight somewhere. Did the same place balance them both times?
     
  5. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

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    I don't think so.

    Very stiff side-wall tires are run-flats. Mine are simply very low-profile, and extremely sticky. So sticky that they pick-up road debris and fling it inside the wheel-wells. Seriously, for normal Mustang (read aggressive) drivers, they last about 10K. Because I drive like a Grandmother, they should last me about 15K.

    I'm definitely leaning towards an unsolvable out-of-round issue, since they were balanced twice trying to solve the steering wheel shake issues. Perhaps one of the punctures tore one or two belts in one of the tires in a specific spot?
     
  6. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

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    Yep.

    But with modern balancing equipment, I don't think that was the issue. But I could be wrong.
     
  7. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

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    I learned today that patching my tires means they lose their hyper speed rating.
     
  8. GIockGuy24

    GIockGuy24 Bring M&M's

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    I worked at a Corvette shop several years ago. The new ones back then had some special Goodyear tires that were the only ones that fit the application and they would start feeling "lumpy" by 5,000 miles, maybe even sooner.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2012
  9. JW1178

    JW1178

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    My specialty at work, lol.

    I am taking it these are not factory wheels where you can stamp the wheel weights on the lip of the rims?

    It all has to do with equipment and someone knowing how to use that equipment.

    If the tires are unevenly worn or cupped, you are SOL. However from there, it goes on.

    Let me start by asking you if the inner hub of the wheel where it bolts to the car is a dead even match, or with the wheel on the car not bolted down, can you move the wheel up and down when pressed on the wheel. If it isn't an exact match (inner hub of wheel and the spindle) then there really is no way to get it to be straight, you can be real careful torquing down the wheels to try to get it even, but it won't be really even. You can get adapters called hub centerics.

    Now, when balancing the tires. We used a hub adapter with these fingers that actually went into the stud holes to make it absolutely flush, this made a huge difference. Also, I didn't use the wheel machine's settings, I put it on standard dynamic and balanced the outside of the wheel first, then the inside.

    Well I've been doing this for a long, long time, and I've had a rep as the one that could get any wheel vibration out... but now adays places just want to pay some kid that can follow the directions on the machine. Then the have customers with wheel vibration problems that they can't even explain let alone get out. Hope this helped.
     
  10. Peace Warrior

    Peace Warrior Am Yisrael Chai CLM

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    OP, you know the problem. Yes, seems like we all agree with you.
     
  11. SC Tiger

    SC Tiger Big, educated kitty cat!

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    I would try somewhere else just for the heck of it. Maybe the place you went has a defective machine that only shows up on certain tires? Not likely but worth a shot.

    I think there is also something called "dynamic balance" that takes into account that there are heavy and light spots on a wheel in two (technically three) dimensions. If a wheel is out of dynamic balance it will be okay up to a certain speed but then will try to wobble.

    Bascially the same thing JW1178 is talking about with balancing the outside and inside of the wheel.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2012
  12. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

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    They're factory wheels & tires, car has 9100 miles on it. No issues until the patches were done. It could very well have been that they were not balanced properly, but I kind of doubt it.

    In your experience, are out-of-round issues created by puncures/patches?

    No, I don't. Please add more info if you can.

    My steering wheel shake happened at 65MPH or so, and below that speed and above that speed it was o.k.

    Anyways, the new tires fixed the problem. So there's really no way to be certain what the exact problem was.
     
  13. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    Try road force balancing. They actually put a load on the tire. That will help some/a lot.

    The explanation that I have heard is that some tires are made more round than others. Some brands are better at than others.

    Also, if you have wacked potholes and such, you could have damaged a belt. I have generally heard very good things about the Michelin tires in ultra performance tires.
     
  14. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    Yes. You are adding mass where it wasnt there.

    Typically, you want them road force balanced to within 10-15 grams of round.
     
  15. SC Tiger

    SC Tiger Big, educated kitty cat!

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    Shouldn't this have been accounted for when he had the tires rebalanced?
     
  16. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

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    That's what I've been thinking.

    However, I was faaaar too stupid to take it to a friend who is a Mercedes tech, and take him up on his offer to road force balance them for me. Instead, I just got new tires...:rofl::rofl:
     
  17. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    With very low profile tires, road force balance. Most shops do not do this.

    Get the tires road force balanced and that will help.
     
  18. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

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    Thanks ya'll, I appreciate your thoughts on this.
     
  19. SC Tiger

    SC Tiger Big, educated kitty cat!

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    I was referring to the added mass of the patches.
     
  20. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

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    Thanks for your knowledge buddy, I should have started this thread before I got new tires.:rofl::rofl: