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Discussion in 'The 10 Ring' started by Tamara, Apr 19, 2000.
Couldn't let this thing totally disappear ...
Hey TAZ! Have you forgotten us? ;a
Haven't forgotten at all. The on going big hold-up is getting the sabots made. I talked at length with the owner of a good sized company that specializes in making sabots at the shot show and the costs involved are enormous and basically prohibitive without a much larger market for the sabots. Many thousands of dollars.
Anyone feeling philanthropic?
tazz - i know you guys are hung up on sabots.....
but how difficult would it be to get some jacketed 77 grain 10mm bullets
or even 55 grain?
wouldnt this be a good place to start? at least you can be loading and shooting something instead of wasting time trying to convince someone to make sabots
from the rbcd website
10mm 77 gr. TFSP 2420 fps / 1015 flbs
I don't think anyone would mind having 77 or 55 grain 10mm bullets to shoot, but the reasons we wanted to go with the .223 bullet was the variety of .22 bullets available out there for reloading and the fact that British company making the .224 Boz are playing the stuuuuuuuuupid "LEO Only" game. We 10-Ringers just wanted to have a round we could call our own that was not compromised by political or commercial issues.
A 77 grainer kick'n 2420 fps??? ;f How stable is the flight? What kind of accuracy are people getting at 25, 50, and 100yds?
Yes, Taz ... how about our buddy down in Alabama/OleMiss that likes to load special 10mm? Probably worth a checkout?
You know who I mean don't you?
http://www.rbcd.net/Personal Defense Ammo.htm
or call 210-223-4009 or
Toll Free: 1-877-688-5985
as far as accuracy - i dunno - why dont you buy some and let us know
the reason i keep bringing this up is that if you ultimately do want to load 10 mm / 223 sabots, you are gonna have to go with some pretty fast powders - as the bullets are gonna offer very little resistance and the expansion ratio is pretty big (volume behind the bullet as it travels down the bore)
the other problem is providing enough momentum to cycle the slide all the way back
didnt cds have to lighten their slide?
you can sort thru these issues with either a 60 grain 10mm bullet, or with a 10/223 sabot and 55 grain 223 bullet.....
besides - i honestly think that you stand a lot better chance of getting a 60 grain 10mm bullet before the end of 2002 than you do getting a 10/223 sabot before the end of 2007
and finally - lets talk about projectile length
a 60 grain 10mm bullet would be pretty damn short... you might even make it as a hollow based style just to give enough bearing surface
compared to this - a 55 grain 223 bullet is very long.... you might not have much room left for powder after cramming in that rifle bullet in to a oal that will fit a g20 mag
I am thinking it would be easier to just steal...uh mean appropriate...the .224 Boz and all needed adjuncts.;Q
Any updates to this project?
I don't know about updates but I have an idea.
How about using the .224 BOZ dimensions and a 10mm Mag case trimmed to 26mm and change the shoulder angle 1°? It is not the same cartrige and therefore not subject to the patent.
Sure, you'd still have to buy a barrel but you'd have what you wanted to begin with, a .224 BOZ that is not restricted.
I don't have much handloading / wildcatting experience to donate to this project but I'm enthrawled by the thread. While I don't have any usefull info to contribute I can doanate a few dollars to the cause. Tazz, do you have a paypal account?
I am trying ot find the patents that cover the .224 BOZ but I am unable to find anything. I have searched the PTO website and other places with no results. Any ideas?
I see two diametrically opposed goals here:
1. This was originally invisaged as a way to get the 224 BOZ for us without all the rigemarole of the CDS BS (LE-Only and Patented).
2. Taz wants to do it with a standard 10mm case (40-cal sabots to shoot 224" bullets in the standard 10mm case).
I think there are too many roadblocks to get both of these goals in one leap. There is a lot of expense and trouble with the 40-cal sabots, as Taz has already said.
If any of you are really serious about this, there is already an off-the-shelf answer for you. Just get a 30 ARMCO barrel, and load the already-available 224 to 30-cal sabots in it. The only quirk that needs to be overcome with this is that there may be OAL of the loaded rounds issues. This would be more easily overcome than getting 40-cal sabots made. (One can carefully select the 224" bullets to reduce the OAL, such as lightweight, non-spire-point bullets of the type commonly made for 218 Bee, or one can ream the sabot pocket for the 224" bullets a little deeper. Or, I suppose you can do both, such as loading the 63gr Win. SMP bullet, which is blunt-nosed, yet get heavier weight, by reaming the bullet pocket in the sabot deeper.)
OK, OK ... I have been away for awhile and this thread has nearly died!
I guess no new news??? Maybe if I "wake" the thread back up we can work on it some more?
Tazz, I KNOW that you haven't forgotten about this!!!!!
I forgot about this thread..... and that I was on the inform if someone posts lists....
With the FN 5.7 (if I recall the caliber) pistol available to the public now, is a custom round (or was it saboted idea, haven'ted followed that much which route was taken or recall ) expensive....
A couple interesting things I've noticed recently
The leitner-wise 7.82Sx24 is a 10mm necked down to .30 caliber like the Canadian 30 armco and loaded with a saboted .224" bullet. http://www.leitner-wise.com/products/82s.htm has more infomation.
Of greater interest since it seems to be nearing release is the .22 Reed Express, a 7.62x25 necked down to .224 , it can be found at http://www.reedsammo.com/Page.html
The preliminary load data is done, all the loads are from a 10" Contender barrel 10 shot strings average velocity. Those marked with a * are not running at full power yet. We have not finished any of the loads with all the suitable powders and bullets.
30g - 2782
33g - 2733
35g - 2721
40g - 2596
45g - 2510
50g - 2480
53g - *
55g - 1981*
60g - *
Where is Tamara?
Nice. I wonder what the overall length of the ammo is......
I know the 7.62x25 is too long to fit in a 1911 frame, but if this wildcat is shorter, it might fit. The head is similar to a 9mm.....
Wildcats are nice, but standardization is also cool. As I said, the 5.7x28 would be cool...as it's now "legal and available".
Reed mentioned a 1911 project in the works, which will be very cool. The 5.7x28 35 gr clocks 2100 fps out of my five-seven, and is a hoot to shoot, the lack of reload info or dies for the round disappoints me though. I sure wouldnt mind another couple hundred fps added onto the same bullet, or heavier bullets for that matter. Tracers sure are fun too and are readily available to load up in Reed's cartrige. Brass available by resizing 7.62x25... I cant think of anything I dislike about this round aside from it not being released yet.
Had to push this thing back to the top ... Tazz, is this a dead issue or are you still thinking about it?
Why don't you put the dungeon rat on it ... you know, ole sammi boy ... ;a
(intended to incite samurairabbi into action)