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Hey, Tazz, how's the .223XR coming?

Discussion in 'The 10 Ring' started by Tamara, Apr 19, 2000.

  1. PurchGuru

    PurchGuru Senior Member Millennium Member

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    Dec 30, 1999
    North Central Florida
    Couldn't let this thing totally disappear ...

    Hey TAZ! Have you forgotten us? ;a
     
  2. Tazz10m

    Tazz10m Mod Aerator Moderator Millennium Member

    Haven't forgotten at all. The on going big hold-up is getting the sabots made. I talked at length with the owner of a good sized company that specializes in making sabots at the shot show and the costs involved are enormous and basically prohibitive without a much larger market for the sabots. Many thousands of dollars.

    Anyone feeling philanthropic?
     


  3. Rusty Phillips

    Rusty Phillips Moderator Millennium Member

    1,760
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    Dec 17, 1998
    Southeast
    tazz - i know you guys are hung up on sabots.....


    but how difficult would it be to get some jacketed 77 grain 10mm bullets

    or even 55 grain?



    wouldnt this be a good place to start? at least you can be loading and shooting something instead of wasting time trying to convince someone to make sabots

    from the rbcd website
    10mm 77 gr. TFSP 2420 fps / 1015 flbs
     
  4. Tazz10m

    Tazz10m Mod Aerator Moderator Millennium Member

    I don't think anyone would mind having 77 or 55 grain 10mm bullets to shoot, but the reasons we wanted to go with the .223 bullet was the variety of .22 bullets available out there for reloading and the fact that British company making the .224 Boz are playing the stuuuuuuuuupid "LEO Only" game. We 10-Ringers just wanted to have a round we could call our own that was not compromised by political or commercial issues.

    A 77 grainer kick'n 2420 fps??? ;f How stable is the flight? What kind of accuracy are people getting at 25, 50, and 100yds?
     
  5. PurchGuru

    PurchGuru Senior Member Millennium Member

    75
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    Dec 30, 1999
    North Central Florida
    Yes, Taz ... how about our buddy down in Alabama/OleMiss that likes to load special 10mm? Probably worth a checkout?

    You know who I mean don't you?
     
  6. Rusty Phillips

    Rusty Phillips Moderator Millennium Member

    1,760
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    Dec 17, 1998
    Southeast
    http://www.rbcd.net/Personal Defense Ammo.htm

    or call 210-223-4009 or
    Toll Free: 1-877-688-5985

    as far as accuracy - i dunno - why dont you buy some and let us know

    the reason i keep bringing this up is that if you ultimately do want to load 10 mm / 223 sabots, you are gonna have to go with some pretty fast powders - as the bullets are gonna offer very little resistance and the expansion ratio is pretty big (volume behind the bullet as it travels down the bore)

    the other problem is providing enough momentum to cycle the slide all the way back

    didnt cds have to lighten their slide?

    you can sort thru these issues with either a 60 grain 10mm bullet, or with a 10/223 sabot and 55 grain 223 bullet.....

    besides - i honestly think that you stand a lot better chance of getting a 60 grain 10mm bullet before the end of 2002 than you do getting a 10/223 sabot before the end of 2007

    and finally - lets talk about projectile length

    a 60 grain 10mm bullet would be pretty damn short... you might even make it as a hollow based style just to give enough bearing surface

    compared to this - a 55 grain 223 bullet is very long.... you might not have much room left for powder after cramming in that rifle bullet in to a oal that will fit a g20 mag
     
  7. G33

    G33 Frisky! Millennium Member CLM

    28,009
    1,979
    May 29, 1999
    With G29
    I am thinking it would be easier to just steal...uh mean appropriate...the .224 Boz and all needed adjuncts.;Q
     
  8. brass shower

    brass shower Millennium Member

    169
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    Mar 10, 1999
    Aurora, CO
  9. DeadMansLife

    DeadMansLife Senior Member

    916
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    May 7, 2000
    Carlisle, PA
    I don't know about updates but I have an idea.

    How about using the .224 BOZ dimensions and a 10mm Mag case trimmed to 26mm and change the shoulder angle 1°? It is not the same cartrige and therefore not subject to the patent.

    Sure, you'd still have to buy a barrel but you'd have what you wanted to begin with, a .224 BOZ that is not restricted.
     
  10. Anvil

    Anvil Yo Mama!

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    Apr 24, 1999
    Memphis
    I don't have much handloading / wildcatting experience to donate to this project but I'm enthrawled by the thread. While I don't have any usefull info to contribute I can doanate a few dollars to the cause. Tazz, do you have a paypal account?
     
  11. faro

    faro Rabble-rouser

    I am trying ot find the patents that cover the .224 BOZ but I am unable to find anything. I have searched the PTO website and other places with no results. Any ideas?
     
  12. MakeMineA10mm

    MakeMineA10mm * * * * Millennium Member Lifetime Member

    1,955
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    Feb 13, 1999
    Central Illinois
    I see two diametrically opposed goals here:

    1. This was originally invisaged as a way to get the 224 BOZ for us without all the rigemarole of the CDS BS (LE-Only and Patented).

    2. Taz wants to do it with a standard 10mm case (40-cal sabots to shoot 224" bullets in the standard 10mm case).

    I think there are too many roadblocks to get both of these goals in one leap. There is a lot of expense and trouble with the 40-cal sabots, as Taz has already said.

    If any of you are really serious about this, there is already an off-the-shelf answer for you. Just get a 30 ARMCO barrel, and load the already-available 224 to 30-cal sabots in it. The only quirk that needs to be overcome with this is that there may be OAL of the loaded rounds issues. This would be more easily overcome than getting 40-cal sabots made. (One can carefully select the 224" bullets to reduce the OAL, such as lightweight, non-spire-point bullets of the type commonly made for 218 Bee, or one can ream the sabot pocket for the 224" bullets a little deeper. Or, I suppose you can do both, such as loading the 63gr Win. SMP bullet, which is blunt-nosed, yet get heavier weight, by reaming the bullet pocket in the sabot deeper.)
     
  13. PurchGuru

    PurchGuru Senior Member Millennium Member

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    Dec 30, 1999
    North Central Florida
    OK, OK ... I have been away for awhile and this thread has nearly died!

    I guess no new news??? Maybe if I "wake" the thread back up we can work on it some more?

    Tazz, I KNOW that you haven't forgotten about this!!!!!
     
  14. Kaliburz

    Kaliburz

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    Mar 27, 2000
    North West
    I forgot about this thread..... and that I was on the inform if someone posts lists....



    With the FN 5.7 (if I recall the caliber) pistol available to the public now, is a custom round (or was it saboted idea, haven'ted followed that much which route was taken or recall ) expensive....

    ;e ;a
     
  15. brass shower

    brass shower Millennium Member

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    Mar 10, 1999
    Aurora, CO
    A couple interesting things I've noticed recently

    The leitner-wise 7.82Sx24 is a 10mm necked down to .30 caliber like the Canadian 30 armco and loaded with a saboted .224" bullet. http://www.leitner-wise.com/products/82s.htm has more infomation.

    Of greater interest since it seems to be nearing release is the .22 Reed Express, a 7.62x25 necked down to .224 , it can be found at http://www.reedsammo.com/Page.html

    The preliminary load data is done, all the loads are from a 10" Contender barrel 10 shot strings average velocity. Those marked with a * are not running at full power yet. We have not finished any of the loads with all the suitable powders and bullets.

    30g - 2782
    33g - 2733
    35g - 2721
    40g - 2596
    45g - 2510
    50g - 2480
    53g - *
    55g - 1981*
    60g - *
     
  16. G33

    G33 Frisky! Millennium Member CLM

    28,009
    1,979
    May 29, 1999
    With G29
    Yar....
    Where is Tamara?
    I know...TFL.;a
     
  17. Kaliburz

    Kaliburz

    152
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    Mar 27, 2000
    North West
    Nice. I wonder what the overall length of the ammo is......

    I know the 7.62x25 is too long to fit in a 1911 frame, but if this wildcat is shorter, it might fit. The head is similar to a 9mm.....

    Wildcats are nice, but standardization is also cool. As I said, the 5.7x28 would be cool...as it's now "legal and available".
     
  18. brass shower

    brass shower Millennium Member

    169
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    Mar 10, 1999
    Aurora, CO
    Reed mentioned a 1911 project in the works, which will be very cool. The 5.7x28 35 gr clocks 2100 fps out of my five-seven, and is a hoot to shoot, the lack of reload info or dies for the round disappoints me though. I sure wouldnt mind another couple hundred fps added onto the same bullet, or heavier bullets for that matter. Tracers sure are fun too and are readily available to load up in Reed's cartrige. Brass available by resizing 7.62x25... I cant think of anything I dislike about this round aside from it not being released yet.
     
  19. PurchGuru

    PurchGuru Senior Member Millennium Member

    75
    0
    Dec 30, 1999
    North Central Florida
    OK,

    Had to push this thing back to the top ... Tazz, is this a dead issue or are you still thinking about it?

    Why don't you put the dungeon rat on it ... you know, ole sammi boy ... ;a

    (intended to incite samurairabbi into action)