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Hey, Tazz, how's the .223XR coming?

Discussion in 'The 10 Ring' started by Tamara, Apr 19, 2000.


  1. Rusty Phillips

    Rusty Phillips
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    you know - all this talk about & waiting for sabots has really gotten to me.

    i just cant stand it anymore.

    i want to load something.

    SO,

    im going to take some Speer 50 grain TNT's and wrap the bullets up as tightly as i can in teflon pipe tape until they are about .452-.460 inches, and then stuff them into 45 acp cases full of bullseye and cut them loose in my 625.

    if i had a 610 id try to do this in 10mm but i dont so i wont.

    i figure at least we can start experimenting with quasi saboted 223's in our 10's and 45's.

    probably a 610 (or 625) would allow some of the load development to progress without having to worry about slide velocity and automatic function of the G20.

    we can sort all that out later IF we get sabots.

    STOP THE MADNESS! somebody give me some sabots before do something really foolish - please!
     

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  2. Tazz10m

    Tazz10m
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    Rusty, maybe you could find a .45 sabot and wrap the bullet, stuff it, and slit the teflon tape so that it peals away on exit. This way you have sabot against the barrel rather than teflon tape. Teflon tape against the barrel might expand and cause a pressure spike, but i have no idea.

    ------------------
    Your first and best weapon or tool is always your mind.

    Reality always takes precedence.

    The only thing that should come between you, and any gun... is comfort. Get Agrip!
     

  3. poochg

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    A barrel/cylinder gap is less then ideal for shooting sabots! (be very carefull)

     
  4. poochg

    poochg
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    [This message has been edited by poochg (edited 05-12-2001).]
     
  5. Tamara

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    Has anyone converted a 610 to .40-44 Woodswalker yet?

    10mm 150gr Sierras @ 2400ish fps sounds intrigueing... [​IMG]

    ------------------
    Come say "Hi!" at my neighborhood gun shop!
    10 Ring #2910, Wheelhouse #6254455, Big Dawg #447
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  6. Rusty Phillips

    Rusty Phillips
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    i tried wrapping a 50 grain tnt in pipe tape, but ran out of pipe tape before i could get it up to anything close to .452"

    so.... i thought why not try it in my 9mm?

    heres the pic of a loaded round next to a Triton 115 grain quick shock

    [​IMG]

    basically to make the bullet / sabot (non discarding as I was later to find out) combination - I stuck the bullet point end first into a small dia drinking straw so i would have something to hold onto

    then i wrapped teflon pipe tape around the bullet (clockwise if looking at the base of the bullet) using the straw as a handle

    when I got it close to 9mm - I ran out of pipe tape.... so I sort of mushed it together between my fingers - to roll it up tighter

    then - thinking that it might help to consolidate the teflon layers together.... i heated the nose of the bullet with a flame from a match.... as a side note - the plastic drinking straw immediately melted away from the bullet / pipe tape, and the frontmost part fo the teflon got a little sooty, but it did seem to harden up a bit

    I then pushed the slightly oversized bullet through my lee loader (9mm) which has a tapered passageway and was perfect for compacting the oversized teflon wadding down to close to .355

    this composite bullet was then seated over 6.8 grains of accurate #5, and then I attempted to crimp it into place using my Dilon 550

    attempted to crimp is the operative phrase, as the bullet easily pulled out when I attempted to check its fit in the chamber - dumping the powder charge all over.....

    not wanting to delay the test firing any longer I decided to shake all the powder off of my pants & onto asheet of paper & try to get it back into the case as best as possible

    I then attempted to fire said cartridge out of my G26....

    for some strange reason it didnt fire on the first strike....

    i reset the trigger & tried again - this time i got a light poof.... the slide didnt even move

    i didnt see a bullet impact in the soft sandy soil I was using as a backdrop, but I did see a small shard of teflon pipe tape flying around

    thinking that the teflon & the bullet might be stuck in the barrel, I carefully disassembled the gun & looked down the barrel from the chamber end

    it was clear.... not even any powder residue like i normally get with my 4.9 grain (accurate #5) 147 ranier loads....

    i looked in the empty case, no powder residue

    i was able to find the bullet - and as you will see there was no deformation to the bullet, and only a little distortion to the teflon

    [​IMG]

    Im not sure, but it seems to me that the teflon bullet was pushed out the barrel by the primer charge (and all the unburnt powder was blown out the barrel too)

    at any rate - I had fun, and I didnt blow anything up or lose any brain cells or fingers or anything

    of course, some might say I didnt have too many brain cells to begin with, but that is perhaps the beginning of another thread....

    ONE MORE THING - man - those 224's are LOONG...... I am now of the opinion that instead of trying to get sabots for the 9mm 10mm or 45acp or whatever.... we would be better served finding a source of ultra liteweight (RCBD style) full caliber (short) bullets..... I think we would have much better success pushing a short full caliber 55-75 grain fmj to super high velocities than to get anything close to the same results with a 55 grina 224 bullet in a sabot....

    due to the projectile length, and the length requirement to fit in the magazine, IMO you end up with too little powder space left over

    the round I made up above was too long to fit in the G26 mag..... I realize that the 10mm is a tad longer, but you still have the problem of putting a long bullet in a short case and wanting to cram in a fair bit of powder to boot.

    ok - i better go to bed before the meds wear off

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    http://www.angelfire.com/sc2/RustyRP/images/P5220014.jpg

    http://www.angelfire.com/sc2/RustyRP/images/P5220015.jpg

    [This message has been edited by Rusty Phillips (edited 05-27-2001).]
     
  7. VN350X10

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    Hey Tazz, just a thought here[​IMG]oes anyone remember the .357/.44 Bain & Davis "BOBCAT" from the early '70s ?
    It worked very well, sabot,cyl. gap & all.
    But in this case, the sabot was really a sleve to support the case, & it acted like a chamber insert; the bbl. was bore size for the bullet.
     
  8. Rusty Phillips

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    ok so anybody made any progress on this ????

    any thoughts on the teflon patched bullets described above?

    well, ok - so the pics in my description dont work - go to my web site & scroll down
    http://www.angelfire.com/sc2/RustyRP/

    comments?
     
  9. Fredalso

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    Sounds like a lot of work.
    And the teflon tape may be too soft to take the rifling.
    If you do that again, how about using a faster powder (light bullet), and firing it thru a chronograph?
    Might even start with a .22/.30 sabot, and build that up.
     
  10. Tazz10m

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    Quite possibly the easiest thing to do would be to get a .400 OD rod of teflon and then cut down little pellets to length, then drill them in a jig with a drill press to .22, then cut a X dead center from the top. It would be best to first put the teflon rod in a lathe and shape each sabot first so that there is a relief area so that the petals can peal back easy and lathe away some of the base so more powder will fit and bevel the OD of the mouth so it will feed best then cut each one out, drill, and countersink the mouth so the wind catches the petals and slows the sabot and peals the petals back. It could be done pretty easy but it would take some time to get the jigs made and dialed in with a little precision. I'll try to remember to pick up some teflon rod next time i am out and about.

    ------------------
    Your first and best weapon or tool is always your mind.

    Reality always takes precedence.

    The only thing that should come between you, and any gun... is comfort. Get Agrip!
     
  11. Kilgor

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    New info?
     
  12. Rusty Phillips

    Rusty Phillips
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    I said it before and Ill say it again

    IF YOU WANT SUPER HIGH VELOCITY,

    and it has to fit in a G20 magazine,

    follow the RCBD example
     
  13. Kaliburz

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    Interesting. I glanced at the posts, but 6 pages of stuff, one can miss a lot.

    Any how, the length is no problem for Kaliburz since I'm planning to use it in a 6" 610.
     
  14. Casper

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    Have you looked at black powder rifle sabots for the old .40 henry? I believe they use a 32 caliber bullet. If you haven't looked into the modern black powder stuff recently, you might be pleasantly surprised ;)
     
  15. Tazz10m

    Tazz10m
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    I did a lot of looking around, but i never found any .40 cal sabots. Did i miss some???

    Got a link?

    Update: MarkCO is on the project...

    Stay tuned...
     
  16. Casper

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    Sorry, I went back and looked. I thought for sure I saw some 409 sabots, but they were 451.
     
  17. PurchGuru

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    Just wanted to bring this to the fore-front again ... any new news?
     
  18. Tamara

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    ...to see this thread still alive. ;a
     
  19. Rusty Phillips

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    Even better to see that you are still alive. Hope all is well.
     
  20. sopmodm4

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    Yippe I' making the first post of the year 2002(on this thread);)

    Any luck on the sabots?
    I wonder if a .50BMG sabot could be turned down to .45ACP diameter without falling apart?That would allow the use of a .30cal varmint bullet in a Glock 21.

    Hmmmmm?

    BTW:I saw a post on wilcats cartridges being renamed to avoid copyright infringement for those who merely copyrighted rather than pantented their ideas.There is a version of the .300 Whisper called the .300 Fireball.It's a subsonic round for use in suppressed M16s and it has actually been used by SpecOps teams on more then one occasion.I wonder if there is a similar alternative to the ".2** B*z"?Anyway if you can buy a .300 fireball barrel,dies,reamers when it is an exact copy of a JDJ caliber why not the other?
     
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