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Help an AR n00b purchase.... R-15, Delton, Stag etc

Discussion in 'Black Rifle Forum' started by Mr.Reignman, Mar 18, 2012.


  1. Mr.Reignman

    Mr.Reignman
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    Okay I'm liking the look/feel of the R-15's, any words to the n00b about the weapon?

    Opinions on the Delton? To me, they seem like the best bang for the buck...

    I'd like to keep it in the 650-$800 range however, if I can buy an absolute badass weapon used for a little more I might splurge...

    Whats absolutely critical and what's not?
     

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  2. Glockz0r

    Glockz0r
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    10mm is best mm

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    Palmetto State Armory has the best bang/buck IMO.
     

  3. maverick9614

    maverick9614
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    While I have never put mine through the ringer, I have about 500 rounds through my Delton without a single problem and can ping the 200 yard gong at our local range all day with iron sights and mil surp ammo. If you are just starting to get into AR's, I would say they are a good inexpensive place to start. I went with the 16 inch mid length rifle kit.

    Just make sure you get a quality receiver to build off of. I got a Mil-Spec stripped lower from Aero-Precision for $80. They are an Aerospace company here in Washington that provides parts for a myriad of fighters and transport planes.

    Total cost for a functioning, fairly accurate rifle: about $550.

    ETA:
    Be prepared though, you will never be done modding and changing parts and pieces, regardless of what you get. Ar's truly are the Barbies for men.
     
    #3 maverick9614, Mar 18, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2012
  4. WoodenPlank

    WoodenPlank
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    Who?

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    There are a crapload better rifles than Delton in the price range you mentioned - Spike's, Palmetto, even a basic Bravo Company build. Hell, if you shop around, and add another $100 or so to your budget, you can get a Colt 6920.
     
  5. Mr.Reignman

    Mr.Reignman
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    Okay, what barrel to go with? 20", 16? Someone made a good point the other day stating the weapon was designed to use a 20". Also, is chromed lined the way to go?
     
  6. Patriot III

    Patriot III
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  7. svtpwnz

    svtpwnz
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    Colt 6920 or BCM blem lower with BCM upper /thread!
     
  8. zhix

    zhix
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    IMO


    Stag- popular, but my personal experience was terrible so I wouldn't buy one again


    S&W M&P- good specs and decent quality but usually high-priced for what you're getting

    DPMS- heard to many horror stories to even want to try one

    Bushmaster- have one a few years old, even if they're not as bad as their current reputation they've gone too high in price

    Bravo Company- I've used some of their parts such as barrels, upper groups, BCGs, and they are good quality, but to me their lowers aren't actually that great of a deal.

    Colt- pretty much what I would tell anyone looking for an AR to get, they're goin up in price but I think around $1000 OTD is the best you're going to get for the quality and value.

    PSA-seem to be really great quality for the price right now

    Spikes-havn't owned but would try from the prices and specs' I have seen and what I have heard
     
  9. WoodenPlank

    WoodenPlank
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    OP, I'll refrain from breaking out "the chart," but I'd suggest looking at Smith and Wesson, Spike's Tactical, Colt, Daniel Defense, and Bravo Company USA for upper receivers. They all have reputations for solid rifles and uppers, and doing so to proper specs.

    For a barrel, you'll most likely want a 1/8 (ideally) or 1/7 twist barrel. Some 1/7 barrels won't work as well with typical 55gr FMJ ammo, but I have never had a problem with it.

    16" barrel is fine. Less weight, more portable, and plenty of velocity for most needs.
     
  10. Mr.Reignman

    Mr.Reignman
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    thanks guys, gives me something to work with.
     
  11. jrs93accord

    jrs93accord
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    I have one question. What is the intended use for the weapon? The answer to this has a bearing on any follow-up info.
     
  12. WoodenPlank

    WoodenPlank
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    Yep. Your upper receiver is home to most of the critical, don't cheap out components: the barrel, bolt, and bolt carrier. These three items will affect reliability, accuracy, and longevity more than anything else on your rifle.

    Barrel:
    Type: Get chrome lined (BCM, Colt, DD, Spike's, PSA) or melonite (S&W). While there are other options, these two options are generally your best choice for durability and reliability (especially a chrome lined chamber). Get to know the platform first, then worry about doing something different (as a second upper or second rifle) later once you have a better idea of how to run the gun. You also want to be sure you are getting a barrel that has been High Pressure Tested (HPT) and Magnetic Particle Inspected (MPI). As far as I know and can remember, all the brands I mentioned earlier do this.

    Twist: This is subjective. 1/7 will be the easiest to find, generally. Some 1/7 barrels have some accuracy issues with 55gr ball ammo, especially cheap 55gr ammo. 1/7 will, however, shoot the heavy weight stuff without issues. 1/8 will work with heavy weight loads, as well as bullets as light as ~50 grains. This twist is ideal, but harder to find - availability is getting better, though, and I believe 1/8 is now the default twist on S&W ARs. 1/9 will work great with sub-50 grain bullets, up to approximately 70 grains(unless its solid copper, then it might have issues). Some 1/9 twist barrels have even been known to shoot 75 grain without any accuracy issues, but this varies from barrel to barrel. For a starter AR, 1/9 will probably be fine for you, but get 1/8 or 1/7 if possible.

    Chamber: 5.56 or .223 Wylde. No exceptions. .223 chambers can't safely shoot 5.56 ammo, and can face more problems with stuck cases, etc. True .223 chambers are fairly uncommon in ARs now, but you will see improperly cut 5.56 chambers in cheaper brands. .223 Wylde is somewhere between a .223 and 5.56 chamber - it handles 5.56 pressure just fine, but is slightly tighter than a 5.56 chamber. In a true match-grade gun, a Wylde chamber can increase accuracy, but you'll likely never see a difference in a beginner AR.

    Bolt: You want a High Pressure Test (HPT) and Magnetic Marticle Inspected (MPI) bolt, same as your barrel. Some companies do this by batch (1 bolt per 10/100/1,000 made gets tested), and some do it individually. Whenever possible, you want a bolt that's individually tested. DD, BCM and LMT do this, not sure about S&W, Spike's or PSA offhand.

    Bolt carrier: Same as bolt - HPT and MPI. It should also have properly staked gas keys (something all quality brands do), and be shot peened (this relieves stress on the surface of the carrier).

    Other points to hit: Make sure you get a Mil-spec buffer tube, since most stock sold on the market are made to fit mil tubes. A commercial buffer tube is wider, and you will have a hard time getting stocks to fit it. Again, this is standard on any quality AR.

    Use quality accessories, especially for rails, optics, lights, and mounts. While there are "budget" choices that are good deals for less money (Primary Arms is an example), they are generally not as reliable, rugged, or battery efficient as the top-drawer optics, like Aimpoint, Leupold, Trijicon, Surefire, etc. A lot of that comes down to use, though. Range toys are fine with less expensive optics, so long as you know what you're getting. If you're willing to stake your life behind it (SD/HD/, duty, SHTF, etc) - buy the best stuff out there, and don't worry about it.

    Buying quality components and accessories is expensive, but you'll generally only have to do it once (unless you just wanna try something different). Buying cheap junk usually means you get a low quality product that will later need to be replaced.

    Hence a phrase you'll see pop up here; Buy once, cry once. If you buy the good stuff the first time, you'll only cry once - over the price, and not because you go through 4 cheap things that all break before you finally break down and buy the good stuff.
     
  13. Restless28

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    Buy my Daniel Defense. Top shelf AR.
     
  14. WoodenPlank

    WoodenPlank
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    Who?

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    Shh! No plugging...

    :rofl:
     
  15. Cole125

    Cole125
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    WoodenPlank, your post #12 needs to be made into a sticky. Spells it out to the guys looking for a AR. :thumbsup:
     
  16. WoodenPlank

    WoodenPlank
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    Thanks. :embarassed:
     
  17. Mr.Reignman

    Mr.Reignman
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    excellent post Wp, I appreciate you taking the time. I hopefully can put some money away, find someone who would trade +cash for my G22, or my G27 or sell the both of them..
     
  18. WoodenPlank

    WoodenPlank
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    Who?

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    No shame in taking your time and saving up to get a quality rifle outright. With your budget, I'd strongly suggest checking out Palmetto State Armory.
     
  19. Patriot III

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    +1 :wavey: