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HD scenario

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by packeagle, Jun 29, 2012.

  1. packeagle

    packeagle

    187
    1
    Mar 2, 2011
    Michigan
    I was laying down to bed when I heard rustling noise out back near my back door. I grab my G22 and head that way with my flashlight to see whats going on. Not sure if its an intruder or an animal on/under the back deck. As I am about to round the corner to the back stairs i hear some one walking up them. They yell that its the police. I yell back that I'm the homeowner and I have a gun. They tell the me to put it down. I comply as i now see them in police gear. They clear my firearm and do a sweep of the home. They say the neighbor called because I used my flashlight to go to the bathroom instead of of turning on the house lights. (I did and can understand the concern) The officers take my info and are on their way. I went to the neighbors house and thanked him for looking out for me.

    I wont be using my flashlight to navigate my house anymore. Other than that what else could/should I have done?

    Looking back I could have identified myself sooner. I can only imagine the consequences if the police would have rounded the corner before our verbal exchange. We would have been muzzle to muzzle in the hallway.
     
  2. Mister_Beefy

    Mister_Beefy Legal & Proper

    2,417
    0
    Apr 19, 2011
    well I'm a cop hating (according to the chosen few here) freedom lover type but I wouldn't have let them sweep your house.

    I would have made them wait outside and fetched my ID to verify the address, then thanked them for their help.

    the "it's easier", "just cooperate" and "do me a favor" tacks are used a lot to get around people's rights.
     


  3. packeagle

    packeagle

    187
    1
    Mar 2, 2011
    Michigan
    Honestly they didn't give me a choice.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2012
  4. firefighter4215

    firefighter4215

    1,137
    34
    Nov 2, 2009
    Kentucky
    I highly doubt they would've left your house and waited outside while you obtained ID.
     
  5. SpringerTGO

    SpringerTGO

    2,688
    266
    Jul 30, 2011
    Great.
    So the police show up to protect this guys house, in a timely manner, because of a legitimate call, and you think he should have given them a hard time?!
    Between this and some of the OC threads I am beginning to wonder how any LEO's maintain their sanity.
     
  6. JAS104

    JAS104 NRA Life Member

    4,506
    202
    Apr 2, 2012
    USA
    Let them in, let them sweep the house, even check the weapon. Its the Police for christ sake, responding to protect you.
     
  7. racer88

    racer88 NRA & SAF mbr

    2,612
    67
    Oct 14, 2009
    It's not giving them a "hard time." It's a 4th Amendment issue, not to mention what should be common sense.

    Mr. Beefy makes a good, if not so obvious, point.

    By CONSENTING to what amounts to a SEARCH of your home, you open yourself up to whatever the LEOs happen to find during their search. What if your friend dropped a half-smoked joint over in the corner? What if you had some Vicodins laying on the coffee table?

    Never, EVER let the police search your house without a warrant.

    The OP DID have a choice. But, apparently he didn't know that he had a choice. And, LE counts on that.

    I'm not saying that in this case LE was on any sort of fishing expedition. They were "just doing their job" and had very noble intentions, I'm sure. BUT... if by "accident" they find something... now you're in trouble (and didn't have to be).

    Always, ALWAYS protect your rights. It can be done civilly, respectfully, with a smile and a thank you. This has NOTHING to do with "cop-bashing" or "LEO-hating." I'm a big fan of LE, personally. But, I'm a HUGE fan of the Constitution.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2012
  8. FFR Spyder GT

    FFR Spyder GT Ex-Gunslinger

    1,132
    2
    Apr 27, 2012
    Hog Jaw, Arkansas
    You need to get some LED light lights for your house. I have them in mine and that have the automatic light sensor soon they turn on when it starts getting dark.

    Since they are LED they use very little energy and a whole house full will only cost a few dollars a year to operate.

    Plus they are bright enough that a 1AM when you get up the room/hallway is very well lit. You will not need a flashlight anymore.
     
  9. packeagle

    packeagle

    187
    1
    Mar 2, 2011
    Michigan
    I was still held at gun point by the 2nd officer when the sweep took place. I'm a CJ major and understand I have 4th amendment rights but I believe he had enough probable cause to conduct a protective sweep. As he was yet to identify me as the home owner for sure. The neighbor said that no one was home because my car was not in the drive as it normally is. Apparently, I didn't answer the first time they announced themselves. I had just come at them w/ a flashlight (just as caller described) and gun.

    This was not started to be a 4th amendment thread. The search wasn't the issue to me. I want to better my way of handling these encounters. I just realize how close of a call it was. I didn't hear the police announce themselves and went armed to investigate a noise at the back of the house. If i would have been a bit slower down the hall I would have probably leveled a pistol on two LEOs as they rounded the corner. Not a good plan.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2012
  10. SpringerTGO

    SpringerTGO

    2,688
    266
    Jul 30, 2011
    I guess if you have 1/2 smoked joints (or other drugs) lying around you should not consent to a search.

    Here's another possible scenario.....
    Let's say the neighbor saw the light from a flashlight, and there really was a burglar in the house, that the owner was not aware of.
     
  11. SFla27

    SFla27

    212
    0
    May 1, 2012
    South Florida, USA
    And what about the statistics of criminals posing as police, gaining entry in your home, and performing a home invasion on you and your terrified family.

    Should you call 911 beforehand to verify police are in the area / outside your home? If so, was there enough time to call 911 in the OP scenario?

    Would it be unreasonable to inform the "people outside" that you're the homeowner, have a gun and are in the process of calling 911 to verify that the gentlemen dressed in police uniform are in-fact LE officers? Would the police comply, or would they deem that as an aggressive or stalling tactic from a potential perp and apprehend and arrest you for interfering with a police investigation while they perform their sweep?
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2012
  12. 220-9er

    220-9er

    1,069
    4
    Sep 4, 2002
    North of Atl
    I have good outside lighting outside my house. I would have turned on those lights from inside my dark house without going outside so I could see who was there and they couldn't see me.
    By going outside you lost the element of surprise, protective cover and any other home-field advantage you would have had. A real burglar could have shot you, the police could have shot "the guy with the gun", mistaking you for a bad guy.
    Glad it turned out OK.
     
  13. packeagle

    packeagle

    187
    1
    Mar 2, 2011
    Michigan
    Just to be clear, this took place inside my home. I didn't know it was the police until they were already inside the house. I only heard some noise (them making entry) thats why I went to investigate the situation.
     
  14. SFla27

    SFla27

    212
    0
    May 1, 2012
    South Florida, USA
    Oops, my apologies packeagle. I got caught up in the "outside" discussion topics and forgot this happened inside your house.

    Well, the same question would apply.

    Would law enforcement grant you the right to call 911 to verify their identity before traveling further into your home? It would make for a fairly tense situation, to say the least. But at least you would make sure they are LE and not a group of home invasion impersonators.
     
  15. racer88

    racer88 NRA & SAF mbr

    2,612
    67
    Oct 14, 2009
    Just an example. But, here's the thing... You may not KNOW that your kid's friend dropped a half-smoked joint. YOU are innocent. But, you just FORFEITED your rights.

    What if the officer spots a photo in a frame of your own kid who's naked in the bathtub (and thinks it's child porn)? You're innocent. But, by consenting to the search, you've forfeited your rights.

    I'm as law-abiding, clean-cut as they come. But, I will NEVER just invite LE into my house and voluntarily forfeit my rights. It's not about having something to hide. It's just not smart.
     
  16. SpringerTGO

    SpringerTGO

    2,688
    266
    Jul 30, 2011
    Maybe I'm naive, but I don't have any issues allowing police into my residence under these circumstances. After they conduct their business, I'd offer them refreshments as well.
     
  17. wjv

    wjv

    13,802
    1,228
    Jan 17, 2002
    Pacific NW
    Curious as to how they gained entry into your home?

    Do you not lock your doors? If not, you should!!!
     
  18. beatcop

    beatcop

    2,034
    96
    Aug 13, 2003
    New England
    If you are going to pack heat outdoors, carry your ID/wallet.

    "Sir, here's my ID...I live here...See address on license."

    Done.

    Otherwise, you are some guy lurking with a gun who just killed the owner of the house...who they will now look inside for.
     
  19. racer88

    racer88 NRA & SAF mbr

    2,612
    67
    Oct 14, 2009
    I used to be naive and think it was harmless (to consent to a search), as if anyone has "nothing to hide," it's ME. But, I've educated myself on this topic a bit. And, the problem is that you don't know that you DO have a LOT to lose, even though you are innocent... once you forfeit your rights. If you CONSENT, you GIVE UP whatever rights you had. And, if they happen to stumble across something you knew nothing about or had nothing to do with... you're SCREWED.

    On the other hand, if you ASSERT your rights, and they go in anyway - violating your rights - you're NOT screwed.

    In other words, you have nothing to GAIN by letting them in. But, you MAY have EVERYTHING to LOSE.