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HD round?

Discussion in 'Black Rifle Forum' started by Hour13, Apr 10, 2012.

  1. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936 Millennium Member

    4,338
    146
    Dec 25, 1999
    Rebel South
    My AR with a muzzle break is easily the loundest thing Ive got. I would really hate to fire it indoors. My hd gun is a SW model 10 38special.
     
  2. Hour13

    Hour13 Tah-dah!

    2,139
    2
    Aug 21, 2011
    San Antonio, TX
    Thanks guys, alot of good info! Should've specified too, 16" 1:7 twist.

    Looks like I've got some shopping to do! Probably pick up some drywall sections from Depot for my next range trip & do some tests.
     


  3. WoodenPlank

    WoodenPlank Who?

    7,958
    3
    May 15, 2010
    NW Florida
    No clue, honestly. I came across some after a shop in my home town scored a few cases of it. I got a case for myself, and split a second case with my dad.

    Like I mentioned earlier, don't stack 10 sections of drywall 1" apart and think that's a solid test. Set them up like a house would be - 2 sheets spaced for one wall, then a second "wall" 10-30 feet away, depending on how big of a room you want to simulate. You'll be surprised what the impact on the second "wall" looks like with most loads.
     
  4. bmoore

    bmoore

    4,373
    5
    Jan 15, 2006
    Under a regime.
    Your not shooting them behind the shoulder then. Vmax's are designed to save pelts. Tiny hole in, with no exit. They work extremely well when placed just behind the shoulder. The big nasty splash wounds are when big bone is hit, thats not how they are designed to work. Dime sized entrance, no exit. Vmax's would be my last choice for defense. Pointed soft points, JHP and FMJ would be a better choice.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  5. WoodenPlank

    WoodenPlank Who?

    7,958
    3
    May 15, 2010
    NW Florida
    Unfortunately, it's nearly impossible to place precision shots like that in a HD/SD scenario. What happens when a VMAX strikes a human sternum or rib? I'd much rather use something I know will reach vitals.
     
  6. bmoore

    bmoore

    4,373
    5
    Jan 15, 2006
    Under a regime.

    Yep I agree with you. Vmax's would be my last choice. Pointed soft point or JHP, even FMJ. The chances of a Vmax lacking penetration on a 200lb target would be very high in my opinion. Like in the other post I commented on, Ive seen 25lb coyote do the jump, spin, take off across the desert then crump.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  7. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

    19,982
    2,296
    Sep 4, 2009
    U.S.A.
    If you want to keep noise down use .223 and not 5.56, though it's not going to make much difference.

    Any OTM, JSP, or JHP should be good as long as it isn't a "varmint" round.
     
  8. WoodenPlank

    WoodenPlank Who?

    7,958
    3
    May 15, 2010
    NW Florida
    It's not going to make a noise difference worth anything. It WILL cost you on velocity, though. Use 5.56 whenever possible.
     
  9. Although my AR isn't my first or second HD option, it's loaded with TAP T2 if needed. Just got some Black Hills MK262 Mod 1 - maybe those in a 2nd mag. The MK318 has caught my interest as well.
     
  10. copo9560

    copo9560

    376
    0
    Feb 21, 2012
    Maybe a bad choice but I have XM855 on hand and this would have to do. Think of it this way, if you are using an AR for HD (not my first choice) bad guy would likely get more than one hole in him anyway.

    Inside home 12 guage is my favorite, followed by Glock 20 or 23.
     
  11. bmoore

    bmoore

    4,373
    5
    Jan 15, 2006
    Under a regime.
    G20, now your talking my language.
     
  12. Hour13

    Hour13 Tah-dah!

    2,139
    2
    Aug 21, 2011
    San Antonio, TX
    Oh ya, planning on 2nd wall 10' back from the first, and a 3rd 20ft behind that.

    And no the AR certainly isn't 1st choice, but if it ever becomes needed... I try to plan for the worst, as best as I can.

    I sold my 870 awhile back, and until I replace it, the AR is the backup to my USP. Hopefully soon, IMO a 12ga packed with 00 or #1 buck is the ideal HD weapon. I sold the 870 due to a pair of shattered wrists making it very hard to handle. All healed now, but time & money going in all different directions right now, lol.
     
  13. C.Smith

    C.Smith Millennium Member

    650
    1
    Jun 22, 1999
    Eastern Washington
    I have read they do not penatrate more than four layers of drywall, way less than a handgun round. As for noise don't worry about it. In a self defence situation you will more than likely get audiotory exclusion and not hear the rifle or it will be very muffled. While hunting I shoot high power rifles and only remember hearing the rifle a couple of times and of those times it was not ear shattering it was very muffled.
    Corey.
     
  14. Airhasz

    Airhasz

    533
    3
    Feb 26, 2012
    Bad Axe
    True, but it still damages your hearing even if you cannot remember it.
     
  15. WoodenPlank

    WoodenPlank Who?

    7,958
    3
    May 15, 2010
    NW Florida
    Honestly, M855 is probably one of the worst choices for HD ammo in an AR.

    Absolutely.
     
  16. WoodenPlank

    WoodenPlank Who?

    7,958
    3
    May 15, 2010
    NW Florida
    :wow:
     
  17. bmoore

    bmoore

    4,373
    5
    Jan 15, 2006
    Under a regime.
    Those leave the muzzle at 3600fps if I remember correctly. The same Winchester white box 45grn 22-250 leaves the muzzle at 4,000 fps. Thats ballistic for inside.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
  18. WoodenPlank

    WoodenPlank Who?

    7,958
    3
    May 15, 2010
    NW Florida
    I bet it does some serious tissue damage...


    In small game. I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable using it for HD.
     
  19. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

    22,087
    4,106
    Apr 7, 2011
    Arlington, VA.
    I keep M193 in my mags at home, but I'll probably get some 55gr. HPs from a company like Corbon or the like.

    One account I read really stuck with me, it ma have been posted here, linked from here, or something I read somewhere else....can't remember.

    Anyhow, in one of the first few years of the war in Iraq, a Federal Marshal was sent to Iraq to round up some clowns that had left the US and headed for Iraq. He was teamed with some Military guys, and went on a mission to grab an HVT with them.

    He was told to cover the back door of the house they were going to go into, in case any tried to hustle out. He was using the ammo he had brought with him, and it was a lighter grain HP round. Shortly after the Military guys kicked in the front door, 3 guys with AKs came running out the back door. The Marshall double tapped each one in the chest as they came out, and they dropped hard DRT.

    Autopsies were done on the bodies, and it was discovered that those rounds had done incredible damage inside the chest cavities....serious, grape-fruit sized areas of damage that really dropped them.

    So, I would feel very comfortable with a high-velocity 55gr JHP from any good ammo manufacturer. Since SD/HD shootings are going to be at very close range for a rifle, I'm not of the opinion that heavier grain boolets are necessary.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012