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Hard cast bullets OK in factory Glock barrels?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Apocalypse_Now, Feb 2, 2008.

  1. Apocalypse_Now

    Apocalypse_Now Molon Labe

    2,605
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    Jan 29, 2006
    The Outer Limits
    I'm guessing this has been beaten to death in some old thread but after many Glockless years I'm going to buy several Glocks. (G22 and a G21 w G20 conversion)I'm wondering if hard cast, properly lubed bullets (I tend to use Lee tumble lube bullets) are OK to use in Glocks if a few lead-chaser JHPs are at the bottom of each mag and if a Lewis tool is used to keep the bore clean?

    I remember reading years ago they were supposed to be a no-no with polygonal rifling.. was that an old wive's tale? I didn't use my lead bullet loads in the G17 I had way back then, because of this. I'm planning on an aftermarket standard rifled barrel for this use but I'm also curious about the stock barrel and lead loads.. thanks in advance
     
  2. Steve Koski

    Steve Koski Got Insurance? Millennium Member

    7,059
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    Jan 31, 1999
    Montanuh
    It all depends on the bullets (and your load and other stuff), but there's no way to know in advance. You have to do some testing to see how quickly the lead builds up. Some combos lead badly in 30 rounds, others can fire hundreds without significant leading.
     


  3. Apocalypse_Now

    Apocalypse_Now Molon Labe

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    Jan 29, 2006
    The Outer Limits
    Well my tumble lube hard cast loads hardly lead a barrel at all.. just a few JHPs at the end of the session and a pass or two with the lead remover tool cleans out even revolvers.

    I also water-quench the bullets into a half full 5 gallon bucket of cold water as they drop out of the mold
     
  4. Jake44460

    Jake44460

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    May 6, 2006
    NE Ohio
    Such as.......:dunno: ?

    I'm looking to shoot lead in the not to distant future. Stock barrel.

    I'll take any good advice on loads in 9/45 acp
     
  5. Apocalypse_Now

    Apocalypse_Now Molon Labe

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    The Outer Limits
    Improperly lubed lead bullets can badly cake up a bore with an unreal amount of shavings and lead coating.. Many factory bulk lead bullets are in this camp.. I wouldn't buy them unless you get reviews first.

    For pistol bullets I use the 6 cavity Lee tumble lube bullet molds. No bullet sizing required. You cast 'em (I quench as listed above) dry them out (I use a large piece of cardboard or several cardboard box tops from printing/typing paper boxes)

    Then use a coffee can or similar (1 lb size is perfect) fill it 1/3 full of bullets, add the proper amount of the Lee tumble lube, shake well and pour them out on the cardboard or a piece of plywood. In warm weather or inside they will dry in a few hours. Make sure you have fully coated the entire bullet. The lube will dry semi-hard. I make sure none are resting on their base while they dry.. to ensure they are fully coated there and don't stick to the surface.

    Then simply load 'em or tuck away for your next project. I wouldn't say they are true match quality but plenty accurate for self defense training and small game shooting such as rabbits
     
  6. CaptJim

    CaptJim Lifetime Member

    367
    35
    Jan 3, 2007
    NC Coast
    I have shot lots of lead in my Glock. BUT, have changed over to the Master Blaster polymer-coated RNFP for my Glock 45. Shoots cleaner, with higher velocity than equivalent lead bullets. A little more expensive, but worth it IMHO.

    Jim
     
  7. AlPackin

    AlPackin

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    Aug 12, 2007
    CT
    I believe Master Blaster is out of business
     
  8. sig2009

    sig2009

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    May 3, 2005
    KEAD Bullets are hardcast and will not lead up your Glock barrel.
     
  9. Apocalypse_Now

    Apocalypse_Now Molon Labe

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    Jan 29, 2006
    The Outer Limits
    So it seems with the right lube (or purchased bullets) and care to keep the barrel clean of extra lead particles there's no problem.. ?

    I long suspected this but never really had to test the theory on polygonal rifling
     
  10. MakeMineaP99

    MakeMineaP99 Got SIG?

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    Apr 11, 2002
    N. IN
    There's a whole lot more to the equation than that. Poly bores require lead sized differently than conventionally rifled bores.

    A poly bore actually compresses the bullet and rotates it about an axis where as a conventional bore only causes the bullet to rotate around an axis. Due to this, this is the reason for jacketed bullets being recommended in poly bores, from Glock, H&K, et al.

    The first step in running lead in any poly bore is to slug the barrel. I bet you'll find that lead should be sized one or two thousands over conventional deminsions for the bore. Most 9mm lead is .356", a Glock needs .358", generally. An undersize bullet will lead to leading, all the time, every time.

    Also, hard cast isn't always better. Upon firing, the bullet "expands" from the pressure to seal the bore. In a low pressure round, like .45 ACP, a 11 BHN will expand sufficiently. In 9mm though, something harder, maybe in the 22 BHN range, is needed to seal the bore under the higher pressure. Have an improperly hardened bullet, you will experience leading, since it won't seal the bore and lead to gas cutting.

    Don't forget twist and bore profile (hex vs. oct) either. 9mm and .40 are naturally less friendly because of more agressive rifling and hex bore profile, compared to .45 and will require a bit more due diligence.

    Lube also plays a part. Lar's Red works well in most pistol applications and most rifle applications. Any good commericial lube should do, ALOX, LLA, Lar's, SPG, et al, or home made lube (Felix).
     
  11. MakeMineaP99

    MakeMineaP99 Got SIG?

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    Apr 11, 2002
    N. IN
    Forgot to address this in the earlier post, those of you who think that a few jacketed or plated bullets will shoot out the lead in a barrel at the end of a shooting session, need to go back to physics class.

    When a bullet passes through the barrel, the barrel expands around the bullet, like a snake eating a mouse, as it accelerates through the barrel. Firing a jacketed bullets serves to "iron" the lead into the pores of the steel making it harder to remove.

    If you have severe leading, jacketed bullets can cause unsafe pressures and at worst, cause a barrel bulge or burst. Remember, metals and most fluids are incompressible and will cause pressure (force/area) on the barrel walls.

    Get a chore boy or Lewis lead remover.
     
  12. Apocalypse_Now

    Apocalypse_Now Molon Labe

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    Jan 29, 2006
    The Outer Limits
    Re-read my post. I use a few JHPs (Or other jacketed bullets) at the bottom of each mag to blow some of the lead out and keep it at a minimum until the shoot is over. This works excellently in my experience with good, well-lubed lead loads. Yes there is lead left to remove when you clean with a lead remover tool but it's less with the "chaser" rounds added to the mix
     
  13. sig2009

    sig2009

    938
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    May 3, 2005
    Ya. And my BMW says premium fuel only. Guess what! It also runs on 87 octane with no problem and that after about 10 years. Don't believe everything the manufacturers tell you.
     
  14. AngelDeville

    AngelDeville NoHablaMexican

    470
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    Feb 3, 2008
    ABQ
    I already have the 200grain bullet mould for my future G20, I expect no problems.
     
  15. I have fired thousands of rounds of lead out of my factory barrel G-19 with no problems. I have found that using slower powders also reduces the amount of leading. You may want to experiment with that too.

    Frosty
     
  16. MakeMineaP99

    MakeMineaP99 Got SIG?

    2,977
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    Apr 11, 2002
    N. IN

    I read your post,

    This BS and an internet myth. JHPs and other jacketed bullets do not remove lead, they "iron" it into the barrel.

    Steel, like all materials, will elastically deform until it reaches its yield point, which will then plastically deform. The steel will "expand"--elastically deform, like a snake eating a mouse, when a bullet passes through the barrel. Obstructions, whether lead, water, sand, grit, etc. will cause an additional force to be applied over an area (pressure). If that pressure becomes greater than the yield strength of the material, meaning that you have reached and exceed the yield point, the barrel will bugle or if stressed to the failure point, burst.

    Metals and most fluids (water among them) are incompressible, meaning if they are in a barrel when a force is exerted (bullet being accelerated has force), the force will be exerted on them, meaning they will stress the barrel.

    Can you get away with it? Sure, all designs incorporate a factor of safety. Does that make it the smart thing to do? Not really.

    Lewis lead remover is good stuff.
     
  17. Jake44460

    Jake44460

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    May 6, 2006
    NE Ohio
  18. +1 to that.

    I agree with P-99's position on shooting jacketed bullets over any potential lead deposits in any barrel. Before going to jacketed bullets, I clean the lead and lube FASTIDIOUSLY from a barrel. The Chore Boy fibers--wrapped around a played-out bore brush, then soaked in Hoppe's--will get out a SURPRISING amount of plomocaca.

    It goes the other way, too--get ALL of the copper jaclet fouling from a barrel before shooting lead through it. Copper deposits will cheerfully strip lead from the bullet as it passes over, and get that bore leaded for you in short order. Hoppe's or CLP will de-copper a bore over time, if you want to hurry the process use Sweet's 7.62 or some other ammonia-based solvent. DO NOT leave ammonia-based solvents in place for more than 10 minutes--swab them out, dilute the residual ammonia with a couple wet patches of Hoppe's or CLP, then dry-patch that stuff out. Repeat as needed.