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Gun show loop hole??

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Psychman, Dec 19, 2012.

  1. FLIPPER 348

    FLIPPER 348 Happy Member

    Oct 7, 2000
    Bend Oregon


    A buyer who cannot get a firearm legally is going to go this route. Be it at a gunshow or the local paper.
  2. Roger1079


    Mar 22, 2008
    South FL
    Not at any gun show I have ever been to. Then again, I normally get so frustrated at the crowd at those things that I just may not have ever stayed long enough to notice this. I would rather pay a bit more and not deal with the hassle. Same reason I don't shop on Black Friday.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012

  3. Henry's Dad

    Henry's Dad woof, woof

    What I've never understood is this:

    At it's first sale at a dealer, a handgun must enter the stream of commerce through an FFL.

    So who's the moron who registers the gun in his name and then later sells it privately without an official transfer?

    Gun gets used in a crime, who does it get traced back to? Last owner of record, yes?

    Even if a private transfer is technically legal, why would you want that liability hanging over your head?

    Same reason I've never understood the upside of straw purchases for the official buyer of record. Sure, somebody pays you to make the official buy, but then you're on the hook for whatever happens with that gun.
  4. pipedreams

    pipedreams Member

    Feb 19, 2011
    S. E. Iowa

    Never seen that done but anything is possible.

    I have seen signs pinned to the back of a persons jacket walking around saying they have a gun to trade or sell. If approached they simply leave the building and make the transaction or a sign in in the window of their car with a phone number to call. How you stop that? Do you have any data on how many of these private sales result in crimes.
  5. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

    Apr 7, 2011
    Arlington, VA.

    I gotta mull this new info over. I did not know that such things occured.

    On the face of it, if for no other reason than to remove the "gun show loop-hole" phrase from the anti-gunners lexicon, it might be wise to consider shutting it down.

    I get the "slippery slope", I understand that the private sales of firearms has had little to do with any of these shootings. Still, perhaps if we supported not allowing private sales at gun shows, we could shut them up a bit.

    I don't's a double edged sword. We don't need anymore gun legislation. But then criminals are most certainly getting their guns that way.

    Screw it, I saw close it. Folks can still do face-to-face transactions free of governmental interference. Just make all gun show participants use NICS and 4473s.

    I do think as responsible gun owners, it is incumbant on us to help make sure that criminals have as hard a time as possible getting firearms.

    Flame suit on.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
  6. KalashniKEV


    Sep 24, 2003
    Sure, all the time.

    I oppose this not on the registry thing or JBTs-show-up-at-my-house thing, but just because the Federal Government has no business being in the middle of that transaction.

    If the state wanted to impose it, and we do have a state form in VA, I would be *a little more* ok with it. I'm a states rights kind of guy.

    Virginia was ready to secede over Obamacare... maybe we will this time?
  7. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

    Apr 7, 2011
    Arlington, VA.
    I'm old & fat, but I'm in.:rofl::rofl:
  8. Jack_Pine

    Jack_Pine CLM

    Feb 3, 2009
    Just for clarity it is my understanding that the show laws vary by state. California, Colorado, Illinois, New York, Oregon and Rhode Island require checks for all sellers/buyers.

    As I said, it varies. I believe some state don' allow private sales at shows and some do. I just saw a good list on the differences the other day but can't locate it...............
  9. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

    Apr 23, 2008
    These are FTF transactions. How do you close it without ending those?

    Let the vampire into the house and you know what comes next.
  10. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

    Jan 16, 2005
    At some shows, but they are a minority. The big face-to-face selling at the show is just a guy seeing another guy carrying a gun and saying "how much do you want for that." I have sold a few guns that way and even traded for and re-sold the same gun while walking around the show.
  11. stevelyn

    stevelyn NRA Life Member

    Uhh.............. Lots of us who live in free states have bought, sold and traded guns on the used market without goobermint approval.
  12. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

    Apr 7, 2011
    Arlington, VA.
    Again, only at gun shows. Just pacify the anti-gunners. We all know it won't really change anything. Let them think they have won something.

    Folks could still meet at a gun show, walk out to the parking lot and do a face-to-face....we all understand that.

    With how ignorant of all things firearms the anti-gunners are, they won't be able to grasp the specifics. They won't know it really does nothing. But they will not have that talking point to blab on T.V.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
  13. G36's Rule

    G36's Rule Senior Member

    Dec 1, 2001
    Spring, TX.
    How nice of you!


    **** that noise!

    Name a restriction to our firearms rights that has reduced crime OR reduced the lefts desire to take more...

    Used to be we could buy a gun mail order and have it shipped to your home. Crime wasn't bad then.

    Used to be a person didn't have to fill out a form to buy a gun, and crime wasn't bad then either...

    Crime did escalate after that though.

    Background checks, waiting periods, AWB's.... All in the name of compromise and to help stop crime. Never works though.

    So no thanks.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
  14. Psychman

    Psychman NRA Life Member

    Mar 23, 2009
    Long Beach California.

    That is kind of what I was thinking was going on. So this big deal about "closing gun show loopholes" is a big deal about nothing that the libs are trying to push so that people will think they are really helping control guns.
  15. tarpleyg


    Aug 7, 2002
    North Carolina
    Yes, I have and they are few and far between, at least at the shows I used to attend when I lived in Florida. You'd see people milling around with a rifle or case with a sign attached to it trying to sell a gun or two. Nothing as nefarious as they'd have everyone believing. Oh, and to choad or whatever your name is who posted up there ^^^ go pound sand.
  16. Z71bill


    Feb 19, 2007
    Add a 10 day waiting period and you have ENDED ALL GUN SHOWS and pretty much killed off private FTF sales.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
  17. The Habit

    The Habit كافر

    Feb 18, 2005
    I live in Virginia, and like many states, private FTF sales of used firearms are perfectly legal here. The federal government has no jurisdiction over these sales as no interstate commerce is taking place. It will be up to state governments to change or amend the laws pertaining to FTF sales. "Gun show loophole" is nothing more than catchy lingo for the media and antis to use.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
  18. G36's Rule

    G36's Rule Senior Member

    Dec 1, 2001
    Spring, TX.
    As has been discussed here numerous times, there is no liability. It is legal. The only moron is those who don't understand.
  19. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

    Apr 7, 2011
    Arlington, VA.
    I'm going to answer this, because you will most certainly not be the first person to NOT HAVE READ THE ENTIRE THREAD BEFORE RESPONDING.

    Now, if you go back to my last post, you will get further clarification.

    Look, we firearms owners and the NRA are missing a big opportunity here. If the NRA supports closing the "gun-show loop-hole", as non-existant as it is, we can craft, write and submitt legislation for legislative approval. And in that manner be sure that it doesn't really infringe on our rights.

    Big Health Care virtually wrote Obummer Care, because they were smart. We firearms owners and the NRA keep cutting off our nose to spite our face, and look COMPLETELY STUPID in the eyes of the media and the anti-gunners.

    If we (through the NRA) support closing the gun-show loophole, and help to craft the legislation, we can have our rights virtually un-infringed, and take away a talking point of the the same time.

    We firearms owners would look responsible and caring about the situation, and we can still rest assured that face-to-face transactions of private sellers can still take place.

    I call that a win-win-win.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
  20. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

    Apr 7, 2011
    Arlington, VA.
    What part of "only at gun shows" is confusing you?
    Again, if we (through the NRA) craft the legislation, we can make sure that FTF sales are not infringed upon.

    The simple way to do this, is to force anyone that sets up a table inside a gun-show, to use 4473s and NICS. This will shut the idiots up.

    It would NOT STOP folks from heading out to the parking lot (or driving a mile down the road) to do a FTF transaction, or infringe upon any other manner of FTF transaction.

    This way the anti-gunners are satiated, and we still have lost nothing in our rights and freedoms.

    Everyone else but us (through the NRA) is playing the political game. And we are may lose BIG, because we refuse to play them at their own game. It's all about political correctness, social agenda, and how we're viewed in the media. And we keep missing that.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012