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GRT45 Archive

Discussion in 'Test-Posts Here' started by GRT45, May 16, 2012.

  1. GRT45

    GRT45 Transform & Win

    3,084
    152
    Jun 20, 2010
    Texas
    Victory 27-rnd 45ACP Mag Review

    I received the 27-rnd .45ACP Victory mag that I ordered from Botach Tactical. On their web site, Botach advertises the Victory high-capacity magazines for the Glock pistols with the following claims:

    "Victory magazines are made in Korea by a major military NATO approved manufacturer. All Magazines are guaranteed to be top quality and 100% reliable."

    Incidentally, Botach order processing and delivery time were excellent. I ordered it online on 1/9/2011 (a Sunday). It shipped via UPS Ground out of California and was delivered 8 days later on Monday in Texas.

    I inspected the Victory mag thoroughly, subjected it to a fully-loaded drop test, and tested it at the firing range for rapid-fire function. To document the results for inclusion in this Glock Talk thread, the following review is provided as promised.

    Below are my observations in detail. Major points are shown in bold font.

    See MY CONCLUSIONS and Recommendation at the end of this review for a summary of the results.


    Observations of Fit and Finish

    Pros:

    The external finish appearance of the Victory mag is good to excellent. It compared well with a factory stock Glock 21 13-rnd mag purchased in the same order from Botach. The mag body and floorplate are both black in color (in contrast to photo shown on the Botach web site). The seam at the front of the Victory mag is uniform and smooth. The witness hole numbers and the .45 caliber stamp at top are reasonably well defined (the number 6 could be mistaken as an 8). The witness hole numbers are stamped using a different style and slightly larger font than Glock uses. The lower half of the Victory mag is rough textured on the two sides for a sure grip.

    The Victory mag has the ambi-mag release cut-out at the center front (for G21SF if needed) and one standard notch for the mag catch on the right hand side only (as advertised). The inside surface of the right hand mag release notch of a Glock OEM mag is polished smooth and extends beyond the notch to the center, front of the mag, whereas the Victory mag release notch surface is not polished or extended.

    The Victory mag is Full Metal Lined (FML). The liner appeared smooth with no protruding seams or metal burrs. The metal lining appears to be thinner than the metal lining in a Glock mag and is dark bluish gray in color in contrast to the stainless steel appearance of a Glock mag lining. The color difference is most apparent in the witness holes and ambi-mag release cut-out. Surprisingly, the top two witness holes in the steel liner of the Victory mag have a "sleepy eye" oval shape just like a Glock mag.

    The Victory mag floorplate is roughly triangular shaped, like a Glock +2 mag extension, rather than the flat floorplate of a 13-rnd G21 mag. The lip of the floorplate has notches on either side that engage locking tabs on the mag body when installed, just like a Glock mag. The Victory mag floorplate is marked on the bottom with a + and "26-RDS" below. Perhaps that indicates +1 for a 26-round mag or 27 total. There is no other external lettering or mark on the Victory mag to indicate brand or place of origin. The floorplate was easily removed (perhaps too easily removed) using a 3/32-inch punch and finger pressure alone.

    Although there is a hole in the bottom floorplate of the Victory mag, the hole is not used to lock the internal mag insert in place as it does for a Glock mag. The internal mag insert of the Victory mag is a triangular shaped "cup" rather than a flat plate and it does not have a round peg. The mag insert has two, vertical slots that engage vertical tabs on the inside of the mag floorplate when the floorplate slides into place.

    The Victory mag spring was in excellent condition and the coils were aligned well. The spring is black in color, in contrast to the stainless steel appearance of a Glock mag spring. The Victory mag spring is about 10.5 inches long overall uncompressed and has two sections of oval-shaped coils with two different widths, as with a Glock mag spring. There are 8.0 linear inches of coils 0.8 inch in width (13 coils total), and 2.5 linear inches of coils 0.36 inch in width (5 coils total). The length of the oval spring coils is 1.15 inch maximum over both sections. Measuring at the wider coils, the spring wire diameter is ~1.38 mm. For comparison, the spring wire in a Glock 21 13-rnd OEM mag is ~1.45 mm in diameter. The Victory mag spring strength and durability are likely to suffer in comparison to a Glock OEM mag spring. All quoted dimensions of the spring loops and wire thickness are as measure by digital caliper. Overall length and linear inches of loops are estimates using a tape measure.

    The mag follower in the Victory mag is essentially indistinguishable in shape and size from the 1304-3 High-Point follower in the G21 mag. The Victory mag follower has no external numbering or marks, whereas the Glock OEM follower is stamped with the .45 caliber.​

    Cons:

    The metal feed lips at the top of the Victory mag do not extend above the top of the surrounding polymer case as much as a Glock mag. Consequently, on the Victory mag I received, there were areas where polymer burrs (melted overflow) protruded into the interior at the feed lips. They were small and easy to miss without close examination. Unfortunately, the burrs were in critical places such as at the two, rear corners of the feed lips where the rim of the ammo cartridge sits in the mag. Another burr was found at the front end of one feed lip. I believe they would have interfered with smooth operation of the mag and possibly caused Failure To Feed (FTF) during firing. I thought it serious enough to take a sharp X-Acto knife and cut away the excess polymer to yield a clean metal edge all around the feed lips. This defect in quality is significant and should have been identified and eliminated in the manufacturing process.

    The metal feed lips of the Victory mag are sharper (owing to thinner material) than the more rounded feed lips of a Glock mag. I can foresee this creating greater friction on the rounds ejected from the mag during firing. Possibly a higher FTF rate can be expected with the Victory mag over its lifetime. Shooters who reload their own ammo should also watch for any noticeable scoring of the rim and sides of cartridges cycled repeatedly through the Victory mag.


    Observations of Live-Fire Function

    Loading the mag to capacity with live ammo for the first time was a pleasant surprise. The spring tension was substantial but not impossible to overcome. I was able to load the claimed capacity of 27 rounds using finger strength alone. Loading was easy using a UpLULA™ ammo loader. Using the ammo loader, it was even possible to load 28 rounds, but I only used 27 rounds for subsequent function tests during test firing at the range.

    At the firing range I loaded the Victory mag with 27 rounds of Speer Lawman .45ACP 230gr TMJ RN ammo (round nose).

    The Victory mag inserted smoothly into my Glock G30SF 45ACP pistol and was seated firmly without difficulty. No malfunctions occurred during firing of all 27 rounds.

    The empty Victory mag dropped free of the pistol without a problem (I caught it mid-drop).

    The Victory mag was reloaded with 27 rounds of Speer Gold Dot .45ACP 230gr JHP and again no malfunctions occurred during firing of all 27 rounds at a rapid firing rate of about 1 round per second. The Victory mag dropped free from the pistol again without problem.


    Observations of Drop-Test Integrity

    The Victory mag was loaded to capacity with 27, 45ACP Action Trainer Dummy Rounds for a drop test. Eye protection was worn during testing.

    The loaded mag was held stationary in a vertical attitude, mag floorplate down, and dropped from a height of six feet to a carpeted floor below. Upon dropping to the carpet, the +2 mag floorplate released completely from the mag body and the mag insert, spring, follower, and dummy rounds were ejected. None of the mag components appeared damaged upon close inspection. The mag was reassembled, reloaded with 27 dummy rounds, unloaded and loaded again to capacity without incident.

    Upon close inspection and comparison with a Glock OEM mag, one possible reason for the drop-test failure is revealed. The height of the lip at the base of the Victory mag body, the lip used to hold the floorplate to the mag body, is substantially less (shorter) compared to a Glock mag. I don't have a micrometer to accurately measure the difference between the two, but an estimate of something approaching half the height, by visual estimation, is not unreasonable. The difference is easily seen and felt with one's fingers. The fact that the short lip is on the Victory mag body does not bode well for improved drop-test performance by substituting a different brand of +2 floorplate (e.g., Pearce or Scherer).

    Update (2/21/2011): A Pearce +2 mag extension (PG-G45P2) was obtained to test if the Pearce +2 floorplate would yield better results in the Victory mag drop test.

    Upon inspecting the Pearce +2 floorplate, I observed that the slot around the rim was deeper than the factory-supplied floorplate. This slot engages the lip at the base of the Victory mag body. The Pearce +2 mag extension does not include an internal mag insert, thus none was installed for the test. The Pearce floorplate was easily installed on the Victory mag and fit snugly once in place.

    The Victory mag was loaded to capacity with 27 dummy rounds and the drop test was repeated using the same test procedure; a vertical drop from a height of six feet to a carpeted floor below.

    Unfortunately, the result of the drop test was the same as with the factory-supplied +2 floorplate. On the first drop, the Pearce +2 floorplate released completely from the mag body and the spring, follower, and dummy rounds were ejected. Once again, none of the mag components appeared damaged upon close inspection. As I had predicted, the short lip at the base of the Victory mag body is insufficient to firmly hold a +2 floorplate.

    Update (4/3/2011): Glock Talk member Twoball reported that replacing the factory-supplied +2 floorplate with a flat OEM floorplate improved the feed reliability of the Victory mag by increasing the mag spring pressure. Of course, this modification reduces the mag capacity to 25 rounds.

    I tested this configuration to determine if there would be any improvement in fully-loaded drop test results. I removed the factory +2 floorplate and installed a Glock 21 45ACP mag OEM floorplate and OEM mag insert. I had first made some minor bending adjustments to the bottom spring coil to ensure the coil fit entirely within the raised lip of the mag insert. I loaded the mag to capacity with 25 dummy rounds and conducted the drop tests as before; a vertical drop from a height of six feet to a carpeted floor below.

    To my great surprise, the Victory mag with a flat OEM floorplate and mag insert remained intact through all drops (12 in total) and suffered no damage. My best theory is the flat, rigid floorplate flexes less than the +2 extension and with the mag insert maintains a tighter grip on the Victory mag body under stress.


    Major Failure of Drop Test as Delivered From Factory but a Remedy Exists!

    In my opinion, the 27-rnd 45ACP Victory mag with factory-supplied +2 floorplate, or other brand +2 floorplate, is not suitable for critical, self defense purposes in concealed carry or rough handling duty in run-and-gun training scenarios. I would use it for practice range sessions on a static firing line only.

    To greatly improve ruggedness of the mag when dropped, the remedy is to install an OEM flat mag floorplate and OEM mag insert, thus sacrificing 2 rounds of mag capacity (25 total) for improved durability under rough handling conditions.


    Other Observations

    Finally, I'll report on an aesthetic characteristic that doesn't affect mag function in the least; that of rattling noises in a loaded mag. If you're the type of shooter terribly annoyed by rattling noises in a loaded mag, the Victory mag will be a disappointment if my experience was typical. It was abnormally challenging to snug up rattling, free rounds in the upper part of the fully loaded Victory mag (observed in the positions of witness holes 5 and 7). I was not entirely successful eliminating all rattling, even following all the usual tips during and after loading, such as sharp raps of the mag against a flat surface on the side of the witness holes and floorplate, or repeatedly pressing down and releasing the loaded stack of ammo.


    MY CONCLUSIONS

    The 27-rnd Victory .45ACP magazine functioned reliably with the intended firearm during live fire in my limited test of 54 rounds fired and very small sample of ammo type. The finish quality of the Victory mag was below the standard of Glock OEM quality, requiring some clean-up of polymer burrs at the mag feed lips before live-fire testing. The Victory mag, as delivered from the factory with +2 floorplate, is not the equal of Glock OEM mags for sturdy construction and ruggedness.

    Although I haven't used the Victory mag for a long period of time, after closely examining the construction of the Victory mag, it's my opinion that a Victory mag will have a shorter lifetime of trouble-free service than Glock OEM mags. The factory-supplied mag spring will be the part that most likely causes problems with reliable operation. A suitable, stronger replacement for the mag spring should be investigated.

    Update (4/3/2011): Glock Talk member Twoball reported that problems with feed reliability can be corrected by installing a standard flat floorplate on the Victory mag in place of the factory-supplied +2 floorplate. This will increase spring pressure and reduce mag capacity to 25 rounds. I have not personally experienced live-fire malfunctions during my very limited tests and cannot corroborate this improvement in reliability, but it seems very plausible.

    Major malfunctions of the Victory mag with a +2 floorplate, resulting in total loss of structural integrity (loss of floorplate), may be expected if the loaded or empty mag is dropped to a hard surface from typical heights during shooting. Permanently disabling damage to the mag is not expected in these mishaps.

    The ruggedness of the Victory mag can be dramatically improved by replacing the +2 floorplate with a Glock OEM flat floorplate and OEM mag insert, thus sacrificing 2 rounds of mag capacity (25 total) for improved durability under rough handling conditions.

    All things considered, I can recommend these Victory .45ACP mags to other shooters for range practice sessions, but I also strongly warn others DO NOT rely on them for critical response, self defense purposes in concealed carry with a +2 floorplate installed. The mag as delivered from the factory is not suitable for rough handling duty under most recreational or training scenarios.

    However, with an OEM flat floorplate and OEM mag insert installed, I can see a role in home defense for the Victory mag perhaps as a last-resort stash of 25 rounds of ready ammo stored in a safe room for a home invasion situation.

    If the shooter can tolerate these significant limitations as delivered from the factory, or is willing to make the recommended modifications reducing capacity to 25 rounds, the Victory .45ACP mag is a functional, inexpensive high-capacity magazine for the Glock G21, G21SF, G30, or G30SF .45ACP pistol.

    Recommendation

    The 30-rnd KRISS MagEx Extension Kit for a Glock OEM G21 13-rnd mag is a superior alternative to the Victory mag, with greater capacity, for an ultra high-cap 45ACP mag. Although more expensive, the KRISS MagEx extension, manufactured by Magpul in the USA, is a rugged mag and very reliable in my experience. The assembled mag passed the fully-loaded drop tests without damage or failure and performed well in my live-fire function tests. If you decide to buy, get just one unit and test it thoroughly for reliable operation before buying more. See the warning from KRISS below regarding G21 mag compatibility.

    Warning from KRISS - "Note: We have found that the older, first-generation G21 magazines (circa 1995 and marked by pre-ban printing between the round count windows), may have occasional functional issues when installed in these MagEx kits that can cause the follower/spring assembly to hang up as the magazine unloads. Best results will come from using the newer generation G21 magazines."​


    - GRT45
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2015
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  2. GRT45

    GRT45 Transform & Win

    3,084
    152
    Jun 20, 2010
    Texas
    Reserved
     

    Last edited: Aug 26, 2016
    TX45 likes this.

  3. GRT45

    GRT45 Transform & Win

    3,084
    152
    Jun 20, 2010
    Texas
    Holster and Gun Belt Recommendations

    A hybrid holster featuring a kydex shell on a leather backing is a comfortable favorite for Inside Waistband (IWB) concealed carry. There are some good choices in this holster type; among the best are the Crossbreed SuperTuck Deluxe, Comp-Tac MTAC, and White Hat MaxTuck.

    You should also take a look at the custom hybrid holsters made by Glock Talk member Theis. He has a long list of satisfied customers here at Glock Talk. His holsters are a good bargain for quality work and good delivery time. He offers a 100% satisfaction guarantee, lifetime warranty. Wear it two weeks, if you don't like it, return it for a full refund. You can visit his web site at TheisHolsters.com.

    All of the above holsters have a large number of fans here at Glock Talk.

    Be aware of other holster options available to you that may not be as well known but are popular with some Glock owners. Options such as Appendix Inside Waistband carry holsters (AIWB), the deep concealment SmartCarry holster and the Kangaroo Carry holster (hybrid bellyband/shoulder holster) are worth investigating. Dale Fricke Holsters is an excellent supplier for AIWB kydex holsters and Dale provides exceptional customer support.

    Don't forget a good gun belt; one specifically designed to support the weight of a holstered handgun with sufficient stiffness and width. A good gun belt can make a world of difference in carrying your handgun comfortably and securely.

    Fine leather gun belts from The Beltman are a popular choice for exceptional quality. I have read only good reports on the forum about gun belts from A&G Custom Gun Leather and the affordable B21 leather gun belt from Aker. Crossbreed and Theis also make and sell leather gun belts. For training, outdoor and casual wear, tactical belts such as the Ares Gear Ranger Belt or the 5-Stitch or CSM (polymer lined) Instructor Belt from Wilderness Tactical are excellent choices.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2015
    TX45 likes this.
  4. GRT45

    GRT45 Transform & Win

    3,084
    152
    Jun 20, 2010
    Texas
    SGM Tactical 27-rnd 45ACP Mag Review

    I purchased the 27-rnd .45ACP SGM Tactical (SGMT) mag from Tactical Defense Solutions (TDS). TDS order processing and delivery time were good. I ordered it online on 6/27/2011 (a Monday) and it shipped via UPS Ground on 6/29/2011 (Wednesday) out of Dover, New Hampshire. It was delivered 8 days later on 7/7/2011 in Texas. The cost was $25 plus $12.23 shipping cost for a total of $37.23.

    Shop around and you might find a better price. For a Google search string I suggest: SGM TACTICAL 45 ACP MGSGMTGL2127 SGMT45G27R

    I inspected the SGMT mag thoroughly, subjected it to a fully-loaded drop test, and tested it at the firing range for live-fire function. To document the results for inclusion in this Glock Talk thread, the following review is provided as promised.

    Below are my observations in detail. Major points are shown in bold font.

    See MY CONCLUSIONS and Recommendation sections at the end of this review for a summary of the results.


    Manufacture Origin of SGMT Mag

    Upon close inspection, there is no doubt that the SGMT mag body and floorplate are identical to the S. Korean-made 27-rnd 45ACP mag sold under the Victory brand name by Botach Tactical and sold under the KCI brand name by other distributors. In my opinion, the SGMT and Victory/KCI mag body originate from the same Korean manufacturing source. However, SGM Tactical has installed a superior mag spring that is demonstrably stronger than the mag spring provided with the Victory mag (see details of the SGMT mag spring below in this review).

    The 27-rnd 45ACP SGMT mag is packaged in a sealed, clear plastic sleeve that has a barcode sticker with the following text:

    SGM TACTICAL LLC
    Glock 45 cal. 27Rd.
    [barcode here]
    SGMT45G27R​

    On the opposite side of the plastic sleeve is a barcode sticker with the following text:

    MAG SGMT GLOCK 21 45ACP 27RD 051​
    [barcode here]
    MGSGMTGL2127​

    Some of the labeling above may be specific to Tactical Defense Solutions. It is provided here in case it may help identify the product where offered by other suppliers.

    Since the SGMT mag body and floorplate are identical to the Victory mag, many portions of this review are reprinted sections of my earlier review of the 27-rnd 45ACP Victory mag at Glock Talk.


    Observations of Fit and Finish

    Pros:

    The external finish appearance of the SGMT mag is good. It compared well with a factory stock Glock 21 13-rnd mag. The mag body and +2 floorplate are both black in color. The seam at the front of the SGMT mag is uniform and smooth. The witness hole numbers (3 through 27) and the .45 caliber stamp at top are reasonably well defined (the number 6 could be mistaken as an 8). The witness hole numbers are stamped using a different style and slightly larger font than Glock, Inc. uses. The lower half of the SGMT mag body is rough textured on the two sides for a sure grip.

    The SGMT mag has the rectangular notch cutout at the center front required by some models of the G21SF 45ACP pistol with ambidextrous mag release. It has one side notch for the standard mag catch on the right hand side only typical of a Gen3 mag. Whereas the inside surface of the right hand mag catch notch of a Glock 21 OEM mag is polished smooth, with the polished surface extending beyond the notch to the center of the mag, the SGMT mag release notch surface is not polished.

    The SGMT mag is Full Metal Lined (FML). The metal lining is one piece with no horizontal seams that can flex or where the mag spring or cartridges can catch and bind on. That is an important feature for smooth operation. The metal lining appears to be thinner material than the metal lining in a Glock OEM mag and is dark bluish gray in color in contrast to the stainless steel appearance of a Glock factory mag lining. The notch at the rear of the metal feed lips has the slanted sides typical of the latest generation of FML Glock OEM mags. The one-piece metal liner appeared smooth with no protruding seams or metal burrs. The color difference is most apparent in the witness holes and ambi-mag release cut-out. Surprisingly, the top two witness holes in the metal liner of the SGMT mag have a "sleepy eye" oval shape just like a Glock OEM mag.

    The SGMT mag +2 floorplate is roughly triangular shaped, like a Glock OEM +2 mag extension, rather than the flat floorplate of a 13-rnd G21 mag. The lip of the floorplate has notches on either side that engage locking tabs on the mag body when installed, just like a Glock OEM mag. The SGMT mag floorplate is marked on the bottom with a + and "26-RDS" below. Perhaps that indicates +1 for a 26-round mag or 27 total. There is no other external lettering or mark on the SGMT mag to indicate brand or place of origin. The floorplate was easily removed (perhaps too easily removed) using a 3/32-inch punch and finger pressure alone.

    Although there is a hole in the bottom floorplate of the SGMT mag, the hole is not used to lock the internal mag insert in place as it does for a Glock mag. The internal mag insert of the SGMT mag is a triangular shaped "cup" rather than a flat plate and it does not have a round peg. The mag insert has two, vertical slots that engage vertical tabs on the inside of the mag floorplate when the floorplate slides into place.

    The SGMT mag spring was in excellent condition. The coils were aligned well with minimal twisting noted when viewing down the center, long axis of the spring. The spring is bronze in color, in contrast to the stainless steel appearance of a Glock factory mag spring.

    The SGMT mag spring is 13.25 inches long overall uncompressed and has two sections of oval-shaped coils with two different widths, as with a Glock OEM mag spring. The SGMT mag spring has 12.0 linear inches of coils 0.81 inch in width (16 coils total), and 1.25 linear inches of coils 0.38 inch in width (3 coils total). The length of the oval spring coils is 1.10 inch for both sections. Measuring at the bottom coils, the SGMT spring wire diameter is ~1.40 mm. For comparison, the spring wire in a Glock 21 13-rnd OEM mag is ~1.45 mm in diameter. The dimensions of the spring coils and wire diameter were measured with a digital caliper.

    The SGMT mag spring is 2.75 inches longer than the mag spring supplied with the Victory 27-rnd 45ACP mag, thus it can be expected to provide increased pressure and probably improved feed reliability and durability as a result.

    The SGMT mag spring is a similar bronze color and roughly the same overall length as the mag spring supplied with the 30-rnd KRISS MagEx 45ACP G21 mag extension kit. The SGMT spring is 0.5 inch shorter but with an identical 16x3 coil configuration. The diameter of the wire for the SGMT spring (~1.40 mm) is significantly less than the diameter of wire for the KRISS spring (~1.60 mm).

    The mag follower in the SGMT mag is essentially identical in shape and size with the 1304-3 High-Point follower in the G21 OEM mag. The one difference being the SGMT mag follower has no external numbering or marks, whereas the Glock OEM follower is stamped with the .45 caliber.​

    Cons:

    The metal feed lips at the top of the SGMT mag do not extend above the top of the surrounding polymer case as much as a Glock mag. Consequently, on the SGMT mag I received, there were areas where polymer burrs (melted overflow) protruded into the interior at the feed lips. Unfortunately, the burrs were in critical places at the two, rear corners of the feed lips where the rim of the ammo cartridge sits in the mag. I believe they would have interfered with smooth operation of the mag and possibly caused Failure-To-Feed (FTF) during firing. I thought it serious enough to take a sharp X-Acto knife and cut away the excess polymer to yield a clean metal edge all around the feed lips. This defect in quality is significant and should have been identified and eliminated in the manufacturing process.

    The metal feed lips of the SGMT mag are sharper (owing to thinner material) than the more rounded feed lips of a Glock mag. I can foresee this creating greater friction on the rounds as each is stripped from the mag during firing. Possibly a higher FTF rate can be expected with the SGMT mag over its lifetime. Shooters who reload their own ammo should also watch for any noticeable scoring of the rim and sides of cartridges cycled repeatedly through the SGMT mag.

    Observations of Live-Fire Function

    Loading the mag to capacity with live ammo for the first time was difficult. The spring tension is very substantial but not impossible to overcome. I was able to load the claimed capacity of 27 rounds using finger strength alone, but it was arduous and slow due to the stiff spring and sharp feed lips. Loading was much easier using a UpLULA™ ammo loader.

    At the firing range I loaded the SGMT mag with 27 rounds of Speer Lawman .45ACP 230gr TMJ ammo (round nose).

    The SGMT mag inserted smoothly into my Glock G30SF 45ACP pistol and was seated firmly without difficulty. No malfunctions occurred during firing of all 27 rounds.

    The empty SGMT mag dropped free of the pistol without a problem (I caught it mid-drop).

    The SGMT mag was reloaded with 27 rounds of Speer Gold Dot .45ACP 230gr JHP and again no malfunctions occurred during firing of all 27 rounds at a rapid firing rate of about 1 round per second. The SGMT mag dropped free from the pistol again without problem.


    Observations of Drop-Test Integrity

    The SGMT mag was loaded to capacity with 27, 45ACP Action Trainer Dummy Rounds for a drop test. Eye protection was worn during testing.

    The loaded mag was held stationary in a vertical attitude, mag floorplate down, and dropped from a height of six feet to a carpeted floor below. The mag remained intact for five consecutive drops, but on the sixth drop to the carpet the +2 mag floorplate released completely from the mag body and the mag insert, spring, follower, and dummy rounds were ejected. None of the mag components appeared damaged upon close inspection. The mag was reassembled, reloaded with 27 dummy rounds, unloaded and loaded again to capacity without incident.

    The drop test results for the SGMT mag, using the factory-supplied +2 floorplate, were significantly better than the results of the identical Victory mag and +2 floorplate.The Victory 27-rnd 45ACP mag failed the drop test consistently on the first drop. I'm not sure why there was an improvement in the SGMT results; the only difference between the two I can identify is the longer SGMT mag spring which exerts greater pressure on the mag floorplate.

    Upon close inspection and comparison with a Glock OEM mag, one contributing factor to the drop-test failure is revealed. The height of the lip at the base of the SGMT mag body, the lip used to hold the floorplate to the mag body, is substantially less (shorter) compared to a Glock OEM mag. I don't have a micrometer to accurately measure the difference between the two, but an estimate of something approaching half the height, by visual estimation, is reasonable. The difference is easily seen and felt with one's fingers. The fact that the short lip is on the SGMT mag body does not bode well for improved drop-test performance by substituting a different brand of +2 floorplate (e.g., Pearce or Scherer).

    I removed the factory-supplied +2 floorplate and installed a Glock 21 45ACP mag OEM flat floorplate and OEM mag insert to determine if there would be any improvement in fully-loaded drop test results.. I had first made some minor bending adjustments to the bottom spring coil to ensure the coil fit entirely within the raised lip of the mag insert. I loaded the mag to capacity with 25 dummy rounds and conducted the drop tests as before; a vertical drop from a height of six feet to a carpeted floor below.

    The SGMT mag with a flat OEM floorplate and mag insert remained intact through all drops (10 in total) and suffered no damage. My best theory is the flat, rigid floorplate flexes less than the +2 extension and with the mag insert maintains a tighter grip on the SGMT mag body under stress. I found that the SGMT mag equipped with the flat floorplate can be loaded easily with 26 rounds using an UpLULA™ ammo loader, thus sacrificing only one round of advertised mag capacity.

    It should be noted that while the flat floorplate remained firmly attached during the 10 drops of the SGMT mag, some of the dummy rounds (ranging from 1 to 3) were ejected through the feed lips from the top of the mag due to the force of the drop. The rounds were replaced to equal a total of 25 before the next drop.


    Substandard Drop Test Results as Delivered From Factory but a Remedy Exists!

    In my opinion, the 27-rnd 45ACP SGMT mag with factory-supplied +2 floorplate (or other brand +2 floorplate) is not recommended for critical, self defense purposes or rough handling duty in run-and-gun training scenarios. I would use it for practice range sessions on a static firing line only.

    To improve ruggedness of the mag when dropped, the remedy is to install an OEM flat mag floorplate and OEM mag insert, thus sacrificing 1 or 2 rounds of mag capacity (25 or 26 total) for improved durability under rough handling conditions.


    Other Observations

    Finally, I'll report on an aesthetic characteristic that doesn't affect mag function in the least; that of rattling noises in a loaded mag. If you're the type of shooter terribly annoyed by rattling noises in a loaded mag, the SGMT mag will be a disappointment if my experience was typical. It was abnormally challenging to snug up rattling, free rounds in the fully loaded SGMT mag. I was not entirely successful eliminating all rattling, even following all the usual tips during and after loading, such as sharp raps of the mag against a flat surface on the side of the witness holes and floorplate, or repeatedly pressing down and releasing the loaded stack of ammo.


    MY CONCLUSIONS

    The 27-rnd SGM Tactical .45ACP magazine (SGMT) functioned reliably with the intended firearm during live fire in my limited test of 54 rounds fired and very small sample of ammo type. The finish quality of the SGMT mag was below the standard of Glock OEM quality, requiring some clean-up of polymer burrs at the mag feed lips before live-fire testing.

    Upon close inspection, it's very apparent that the SGMT mag body comes from the same manufacturer in S. Korea that supplies this mag to several other distributors selling it under the Victory brand name (Botach Tactical) and KCI brand name. However, the strength and quality of the mag spring supplied with the SGMT mag is superior to the mag spring in the Victory mag. The SGMT mag spring is more comparable in overall length and coil configuration to the mag spring supplied with the KRISS MagEx Extension Kit. However, the SGMT wire diameter (~1.40 mm) is significantly less than the wire diameter of the KRISS spring (~1.60 mm).

    The SGMT mag, as delivered from the factory with +2 floorplate, is not the equal of a Glock 45ACP OEM mag for sturdy construction and ruggedness. Malfunctions of the SGMT mag with supplied +2 floorplate, resulting in total loss of structural integrity (loss of floorplate), should be expected if the loaded or empty mag is dropped repeatedly to a hard surface from typical heights during shooting. Permanently disabling damage to the mag is not expected in these mishaps.

    The ruggedness of the SGMT mag can be significantly improved by replacing the +2 floorplate with a Glock OEM flat floorplate and OEM mag insert, thus sacrificing 1 or 2 rounds of mag capacity (25 or 26 total) for improved durability under rough handling conditions.

    All things considered, I can recommend the SGMT .45ACP 27-rnd mag to other shooters, but I also caution others do not rely on it for critical response, self defense purposes with a +2 floorplate installed. The mag as delivered from the factory is not recommended for rough handling duty under most recreational or training scenarios. However, with a Glock OEM flat floorplate and OEM mag insert installed, I can see a role in home defense for the SGMT mag perhaps as a last-resort stash of 25 rounds of ready ammo stored in a safe room for a home invasion situation.

    If the shooter can tolerate these limitations as delivered from the factory, or is willing to make the recommended floorplate modification reducing capacity to 25-26 rounds, the SGM Tactical .45ACP mag is a functional, economical high-capacity magazine for the Glock 21/21SF, 30/30SF, or 30S .45ACP pistol.


    Recommendation

    The 30-rnd KRISS MagEx Extension Kit for a Glock OEM G21 13-rnd mag is a superior alternative to the SGMT mag for an ultra high-cap 45ACP mag with greater capacity. Although more expensive, the KRISS MagEx extension, manufactured by Magpul in the USA, is a rugged mag and very reliable in my experience.

    It is extremely durable in drop tests because the mag tube extension is completely sealed at the bottom and locked securely in place with two, heavy-duty locking tabs instead of relying on an attached floorplate. The assembled mag passed the fully-loaded drop tests without damage or failure and performed well in my live-fire function tests. The KRISS MagEx mag spring is heavier gauge material (1.60mm dia) and longer (13.75") than one finds in other aftermarket high-cap 45ACP mags.

    If you decide to try the KRISS MagEx, get just one unit and test it thoroughly for reliable operation with your pistol and choice of ammo before buying more units. The KRISS MagEx is advertised as a 25+rd mag since they began shipping an extra-power mag spring with the extension to better ensure feed function and reliability. Nevertheless, I routinely load 30 rounds in the KRISS MagEx using an UpLULA™ ammo loader.

    See the warning from KRISS below regarding G21 mag compatibility.

    " Note: We have found that the older, first-generation G21 magazines (circa 1995 and marked by pre-ban printing between the round count windows), may have occasional functional issues when installed in these MagEx kits that can cause the follower/spring assembly to hang up as the magazine unloads. Best results will come from using the newer generation G21 magazines. "



    - GRT45
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2015
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  5. GRT45

    GRT45 Transform & Win

    3,084
    152
    Jun 20, 2010
    Texas
    Night Sights for Glock 30

    Over several years, I've evaluated the following configurations of aftermarket sights on a concealed carry Glock 30SF pistol;
    1. plain black sights (Warren Tactical WAR-WTL-00, plain black rear and serrated front),
    2. tritium on front only (Warren Tactical WAR-WTL-01, green tritium front w/ white ring, plain black rear),
    3. three-lamp, two-color tritium system (Warren Tactical WAR-WTL-21, green tritium front w/ white ring, two smaller amber tritium lamps at rear with black outlines),
    4. two-lamp, two-color tritium system (Sevigny Carry WAR-SCY-11, green tritium front w/ white ring, one smaller amber tritium lamp at rear with black outline), and finally
    5. two-lamp, two-color tritium system with brightly colored ring on front sight (AmeriGlo I-Dot Pro GL-204, green tritium front with bright orange ring, one amber tritium lamp at rear with black outline. See UPDATE below about GL-204).
    All the night sights I've owned have used Trijicon tritium lamps. Some shooters prefer the brightness of Meprolight tritium lamps or the exceptional brightness of TruGlo TFO or TFX sights that combine tritium and fiber optic elements. To suit my eyesight with moderate astigmatism, the characteristic I look for is a sharp, well-defined dot. Trijicon tritium lamps excel in that category with their aluminum sleeve and sapphire lens to focus the light, whereas the Meprolights have been described as glowing orbs in appearance. The protective sapphire lens of the Trijicon tritium lamp stays clear, whereas the plastic lens covering Meprolight lamps has been known to become dull and yellow from repeated contact with solvents. Sights should be cleaned with water by simply using a damp cloth followed by wiping with a dry cloth.

    Glock Talk member RayB has written an excellent summary of various brands of night sights that every prospective buyer should read to learn more about them.

    Read the report from RayB about TruGlo TFO issues before making a decision to buy them. I freely admit that I don't like the size (length) or look of TFO sights, but many shooters love them. In my view, the bright fiber optic tubes on the TFO/TFX rear sight are extremely distracting in daylight. I'm a shooter who prefers a simple black rear sight with one tritium lamp outlined in black that tends to disappear in normal indoor light and daylight. The low, rounded profile of the forward face of the TFO/TFX rear sight is nearly useless to rack the slide on something for one-handed malfunction clearance drills. I require sights that can take punishing treatment and not suffer disabling damage. I'll take a pass on anything fiber optic (FO) for a combat pistol. However, a FO front sight is an excellent choice for competition shooting and hunting. The TruGlo TFX sights are an improved version of the earlier TFO model that provide better protection for the FO elements and are shorter in length.

    The Warren Tactical and Sevigny Carry sights are excellent for precision shooting at longer range beyond 10-15 yards. A third option I really like in this category are the Heinie LEDGE Straight Eight night sights which are equally good at longer range and are excellent for one-handed malfunction clearance drills. All three are extremely durable in rough service. However, I believe there are better options with a more visible front sight that are faster on target at close range for personal defense, especially for shooters with aging eyesight.

    The XS Big Dot 24/7 Express sights are excellent for fast point shooting at close range for personal defense. They are very intuitive night sights in low light, especially for shooters with less than perfect eyesight. The downside of the highly visible, big front sight is the amount of target it obscures at longer range compared to other sights. The very broad v-shaped rear sight isn't much help either at long range. I wasn't satisfied with the accuracy I achieved with XS Big Dot sights for precise shots at longer range beyond 15 yards. I think that could be overcome with enough practice, but I didn't have the time to spend working on it.

    The AmeriGlo I-Dot Pro sights were the best compromise I found combining fast target acquisition at short range and fairly good precision at longer range out to 25 yards.

    I prefer a two-lamp, dot-over-dot night sight configuration with a single lamp on the rear sight more than a three-lamp system (two lamps at rear). After using both types, I believe a three-lamp system distracts focus away from the front sight more than a two-lamp system. Time to first shot and split times for followup shots increase if the shooter wastes time seeking perfect alignment in elevation of the three dots spaced apart. In comparison, creating a simple figure 8 with two dots in the sight picture quickly gets the windage perfect and the elevation is good enough. Working with a three-dot system in near total darkness and under stress, the shooter can mistake the left or right lamp at the rear for the front sight when all three tritium lamps are the same color. White outlines around two lamps on the rear sight are needlessly distracting in normal daylight. It's just my opinion and a personal preference.

    Some shooters like a tritium lamp on the front sight only with a plain black rear sight to simplify the sight picture even further in low light. However, after doing some low-light training, for my eyesight I prefer a lamp on the rear sight to index front and rear for precision shots in low light beyond a range of 10 yards. I prefer a very simple lamp on the rear sight, with a black outline, that tends to disappear in normal daylight.

    The AmeriGlo I-Dot Pro sights are my favorite night sights.

    The AmeriGlo I-Dot Pro set has a very distinctive ProGlo front sight and a rear sight with a wide notch (.180"). The ProGlo front sight is a Trijicon green tritium lamp surrounded by a brightly colored ring available in either orange (GL-203) or lime green (GL-303). See the color comparison photo below.
    S&W M&P I-Dot Pro sights in the photo below are shown for front sight color comparison only.
    IDOT_PRO_MP[1].jpg

    The lime green model has a more yellow hue in some lighting which can be seen in the example below.

    c6e4c276-4144-9afb[1].jpg

    The orange is a brightly colored paint only, whereas the lime green is photoluminescent paint and will glow in low light for several minutes after being "charged" with a light source (for example, sunlight, indoor fluorescent lighting, or LED flashlight). Of course, both models perform equally well for visibility in a long period of darkness since both have a green tritium lamp at the center of the ring. Orange provides the best contrast against a target background of light-colored clothing in normal indoor light and outdoors in sunlight. Orange is less likely to be washed out in bright sunlight. On the other hand, the glowing lime green ring makes the transition easier going from light to darkness before your eyes adjust to low light and the tritium lamp takes over. You must decide which is more important to you. If the pistol also serves home defense duty, where it's more likely to be used with a tac light at night, the glowing lumi-lime model has distinct advantages.

    The AmeriGlo I-Dot Pro green tritium front with orange outline and green tritium lamp on the rear sight are pictured below (Model GL-203 for G30).

    GL203[1].jpg
    I-Dot-Pro-Sight-Picture-460x345[1].jpg

    UPDATE: The AmeriGlo I-Dot Pro green tritium front with orange outline and amber tritium lamp on the rear sight were my personal favorite (former Model GL-204 for G30 shown below).
    gl204_0_0[1].jpg
    Unfortunately, Model GL-204 with the tritium color combo of green/front and amber/rear has been discontinued. Model GL-203X has the original style of rear sight from the old GL-204, with a ledge and shelf design, but with a green tritium lamp.​

    IMPORTANT: Late in 2012, AmeriGlo changed the design of the rear sight to have squared corners in the notch. Earlier versions of the I-Dot Pro rear sight had rounded corners in the notch.

    The tritium lamp at the rear sight is smaller and not as bright as the front sight, but that's a characteristic I prefer. I like how the larger, brighter green tritium focuses my attention where it belongs on the front sight and can't be as easily confused with the rear sight in low light if both lamps were of equal size and brightness. Of course, frequent training in low light can overcome deficient sights, but I prefer the extra insurance of contrasting sights when the stress level is high.

    The orange ring on the ProGlo front sight really stands out in daylight. The bright front sight and wide notch on the rear sight facilitate very fast target acquisition in normal indoor and outdoor light. The ProGlo front sight is easy and fast to spot early in the draw stroke and presentation.

    The orange color on the front sight is painted on, but it's claimed to be very durable. Even so, I avoid exposing it to harsh cleaning solvents to be on the safe side.

    The I-Dot Pro sights should be installed as a pair. The tall I-Dot Pro rear sight is designed for POA=POI with a taller ProGlo front sight (.220"H x .140"W). A mismatched pair with the tall I-Dot rear and a stock height front sight (.165"H) on a G30 will shoot a POI ~3.3 inches high at a range of 10 yards and ~8.3 inches high at 25 yards.

    When viewed through the wide rear notch, the adequate clearance on either side of the front sight improves visibility to orient the front sight on the target and makes it easier to move focus from one target to the next. However, the rear notch is not so wide that accuracy suffers unacceptably at longer range.

    The right-angle forward face of the rear sight makes one-handed malfunction clearance drills easier to rack the slide on a belt, boot, holster, bench or some other hard surface. The rear sight extends rearward from the dovetail, thus adding more sight radius distance, and the rear face is slightly undercut to reduce glare.

    There is an excellent review of the AmeriGlo I-Dot Pro sights at JerkingTheTrigger.com in an article titled, "Handgun Sight Review: AmeriGlo I-Dot Pro." It includes more pictures and is a must read for prospective buyers.

    Video: Glock Talk member Raleigh Glocker has produced a video review of the AmeriGlo I-Dot Pro night sights on his TWANGnBANG YouTube Channel >>> AmeriGlo Pro I-Dot! Big Dot Night Sights with a Twist

    If you like the ProGlo front sight but really prefer a three-lamp system, may I suggest the AmeriGlo Spartan Tactical Night Sights or the Trijicon HD™ Night Sights. Considering all the features the HD sights share with the AmeriGlo I-Dot Pro, I think the HD sights are an excellent alternative but more expensive than most. The AmeriGlo Spartan Tactical sights have a lower profile that are not as likely to snag on something when drawing or holstering a concealed pistol compared to the Trijicon HD which are more prominent with sharper edges. The width of the Trijicon HD rear sight "U" notch is 0.169 inch versus the wider 0.180 inch square-corner notch of the Spartan Tactical rear sight. The Trijicon sights gain some advantage for accuracy with more precise aiming while the Spartan Tactical sights have the edge for speed and target visibility in defensive shooting situations. Note that AmeriGlo offers the Spartan Tactical sights with the option of contrasting tritium lamp colors on the front and rear sights (green/front & amber/rear) or the option of green tritium lamps on both front and rear sights.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2016
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  6. GRT45

    GRT45 Transform & Win

    3,084
    152
    Jun 20, 2010
    Texas
    G30 Conversion to 40S&W

    The following quoted post was written by GT member mpanwar on 07-28-2011, 16:17 in a General Glocking forum thread titled "G29 conversion barrel performance." The thread was opened by GT member ucsdryder on 07-26-2011, 23:07. The post is an account of successfully using a G29 10mm-40S&W conversion barrel installed in a G30 slide (see bold text).

    NOTE: The forum thread linked above was taken offline to the general public by routine archive procedures as of 7/23/2012. The contents of the quoted post below was reclaimed from Google cache.

    No one is asking u to shoot 10mm in a 40 Barrell or even a .45 ACP.

    G29 => 10mm

    Get a 10-40 Conversion Barrel .. Head space etc all worked out for U

    U now can shoot .40 S&W in a G29 with a 10mm Magazine.

    G30 => .45 ACP

    Get a 45-10 Conversion Barrel ... Head space etc all worked out for U via manufacturer of barrel

    U can now shoot 10mm w/o any more changes including NOT getting a new spring in a G30 using any old 10 mm GLOCK mag including G20 i.e., Longer 10mm mags.

    PLUS as I said before:

    U can also use the 10-40 barrel for a G29 in a G30. I have used my Lone Wolf 10-40 conversion barrel in a G30 ... all day... Just stick with smaller G29 (10mm) mags filled with .40 S&W.

    This has been done for 4 years. No kaboom no ftf nothing.

    So if u do not want to do it do not.

    But if u want flexibility it has been done and I am not the first.

    Cheers.​
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2015
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  7. GRT45

    GRT45 Transform & Win

    3,084
    152
    Jun 20, 2010
    Texas
    Converting the Glock 21 to 10mm Caliber

    A Glock 20 10mm factory barrel will fit and function in a G21/G21SF slide and maintain good accuracy. This has been clearly proven in live-fire testing. The results of tests are available in multiple reports, for example, Post #79 of the Glock Talk thread titled "Glock 21 conversion to Glock 20?" posted in the General Glocking Forum in 2008 (Update: the thread has been retired). The target at the upper left in the photo linked above shows the results of a G20 factory barrel in a G21SF pistol.

    The O.D. of a G21 and G20 barrel are identical and the barrel lugs are compatible. The same holds true for an aftermarket G20 replacement barrel in the G21 slide. Aftermarket G20 barrels are available from Bar-Sto, KKM Precision, Storm Lake, Lone Wolf, EFK Fire Dragon and others. While a G20 barrel is a good fit in the critical dimensions, the 10mm barrel chamber hood is narrower than the 45ACP barrel hood by slightly more than .050 inch. The dimensions of a 45-10mm conversion barrel are identical to a G20 10mm factory or aftermarket replacement barrel except that the barrel hood of the conversion barrel is made .050" wider to better fit the 45ACP pistol breechface.

    Although a G20 10mm factory barrel will function in the G21 slide, the recommended conversion of the G21/21SF .45ACP pistol to 10mm caliber strongly favors a 45-10mm conversion barrel or aftermarket G20 10mm replacement barrel for best results. An aftermarket barrel typically has better chamber support than the Glock 20 factory 10mm barrel, thus the brass casings are less likely to suffer damage which is critically important if you reload them. The aftermarket barrel has conventional rifling (land and groove) suitable for non-jacketed (hardcast lead) bullets of all weights for 10mm. In addition, the aftermarket barrels are available in extended lengths which provide greater velocity and energy. For all these reasons, most shooters want this capability to take full advantage of the potential of the 10mm caliber in their converted pistol.

    A drop-in 10mm barrel (aftermarket 45-10mm conversion or G20 10mm replacement barrel recommended) and G20 mag change are the two minimum requirements to shoot 10mm caliber ammo with the G21/G21SF pistol.

    Some G21 owners find that the stock .45 extractor will function reliably to extract the 10mm case in their converted pistol. A G21 pistol that happens to have a looser fit in the distance between extractor and bore axis can experience erratic ejection and occasional failure-to-extract problems. Replacing the .45 extractor with a G20 10mm stock LCI extractor is an alternative (Part No. SP 01909 and 3442 Spring-Loaded Bearing for a slide with 15° ejection port). This option requires more time and effort to convert the pistol from 45ACP to 10mm and return it back to 45ACP service. Furthermore, while the 10mm extractor is different, it does not necessarily improve extraction reliability on the G21 slide since it doesn't reach any closer to the bore axis. There is another option suggested by KKM Precision, Inc.

    Barrel manufacturer KKM recommends some minor gunsmith work on the stock .45 extractor that enables it to function more reliably for 10mm and continue to work for 45ACP. It involves removing no more than 0.020" from the 'fitting pad' on the inside of the .45 LCI extractor (see photo below) allowing it to travel closer to the axis of the bore and make solid contact with the 10mm case. Some who have studied this .45 extractor modification believe it functions better than the option of installing a stock 10mm extractor. It is best to modify a spare extractor in case of a problem. As material is filed from the fitting pad, test for proper tension of the extractor against a cartridge. With the slide removed from the frame, insert an empty 10mm case or dummy round underneath the extractor claw from the bottom of the slide. There should be some measurable tension being applied by the extractor’s vertical engagement edge to the cartridge. A dummy round should remain suspended by the inward force of the extractor. KKM can be contacted for advice and instructions before attempting this modification at (775) 246-5444

    G21ExtrStdModwnotes[1].jpg

    All the Gen3 and Gen4 Glock .45 ACP and 10mm pistols use the same ejector (marked 8196-2) so that is never an issue for the conversion.

    Aftermarket suppliers offering G20 10mm replacement barrels include Lone Wolf, KKM Precision, Bar-Sto, Storm Lake, and EFK Fire Dragon. These aftermarket barrels have a fully supported chamber; important for firing full-power 10mm factory loads with minimal risk of damage to the brass casing. The rifling in the aftermarket barrel is suitable for firing non-jacketed, hardcast lead bullets of all weights for 10mm.

    A 45-10mm conversion barrel, in both stock length (4.60") and extended length (6.02"), is offered by Storm Lake. The MSRP is ~$170 for stock length and discounted prices from distributors are common. If you get the Storm Lake conversion barrel, be sure to buy the barrel from a distributor that has a good money-back refund policy (for example, MidwayUSA) in case there are problems with fit and function. Bar-Sto Precision Machine is another alternative for a G21 45-10mm conversion barrel. The quality and accuracy of a Bar-Sto "Semi Fit" barrel is outstanding, but it is more expensive ($215) and wait times are long (12-14 weeks). IGB Austria reportedly offers 10mm conversion barrels for the G21 up to 7.5 inches long for import into the USA, but I have never read a review from anyone using an IGB barrel in a G21. IGB 10mm barrels are expensive at $220 for stock length.


    Another conversion option is to purchase a complete G20 upper assembly (factory slide with 10mm factory barrel and internals) and install it on the G21 frame. The Gen (3 or 4) of the upper and frame should match. The complete upper swap is the one option that will produce a converted G21 10mm pistol most closely resembling the factory G20 pistol. For reference, a complete G20 upper retails for $360 from Glockmeister and wait times are long. A complete upper from Glockmeister includes a Glock factory 10mm barrel and recoil spring assembly. The cost to include the factory barrel is a waste of money if the shooter needs better chamber support for reloading and the ability to shoot non-jacketed (hardcast lead) bullets. Other sources of a complete, used G20 upper include the Glock Classifieds at Glock Talk or GunBroker.com where they are often available for around $275. A Glock complete upper assembly is not a firearm under federal law and can be shipped directly to the buyer. Another alternative is to buy an aftermarket G20 slide from Lone Wolf Distributors and add an aftermarket G20 barrel and internal parts for the slide to build a complete G20 upper.

    Some may claim that the only "safe" way to make the conversion is a full upper replacement with a G20 slide because of the slightly heavier weight of the G20 slide compared to the G21 slide.⁽¹⁾ The short answer to this unfounded concern is the added mass of the G20 slide was left there to slow the recoil reaction (unlocking) for the higher energy 10mm round and to attenuate felt recoil, but not as a structural requirement for safe operation. A difference in slide velocity between the two can be partially compensated for with a stronger recoil spring in the G21 slide.

    Glock, Inc. warns owners not to fire non-jacketed (hardcast lead) bullets in the factory barrel with polygonal rifling. Doing so voids the Glock warranty. Many shooters believe the chamber support of the G20 factory barrel is insufficient to prevent damage to the brass casings of full-power 10mm loads rendering them unsuitable for reloading.

    The factory barrel with polygonal rifling is known to have problems stabilizing some loads of 10mm non-jacketed, hardcast lead bullets heavier than 220gr. Greg Kinman (Hickok45) has shown that DoubleTap 10mm 230gr WFNGC hardcast lead bullets tumble and accuracy suffers drastically fired from the factory 10mm barrel but perform well when fired from an aftermarket barrel with conventional rifling. The lighter DoubleTap 10mm 200gr WFNGC hardcast bullet performs well with the factory or aftermarket barrel. Reference Video: Glock 20 with Heavy Cast Bullets (Chapter 2)

    If you plan to frequently shoot full-power 10mm loads, then you can consider something stronger than the factory standard 17-lb recoil spring in the G21, perhaps one in the 20-22 lb range. Examples of full-power, factory 10mm loads are 135gr at 1600 fps, 155gr at 1500 fps, 165gr at 1400 fps, 180gr at 1300 fps, 200gr at 1250 fps, 220gr at 1200 fps and similar loads.

    Several vendors offer an aftermarket RSA for the Gen3 G21, typically using custom-strength springs supplied by Wolff Gunsprings or ISMI. I prefer Wolff springs because I have greater confidence that the actual measured spring strength matches the rating of Wolff springs. If the converted pistol with factory recoil spring exhibits signs of frame battering or brass is thrown a great distance, try a 20-lb spring first and increase the strength if brass is thrown further than 8 feet making brass recovery difficult. One can overdo recoil spring strength so don't assume that the stronger the spring the better. Felt recoil is likely to increase with a stronger recoil spring and one that is too strong will induce failure-to-feed malfunctions with weak loads in practice ammo.

    As of this writing, an aftermarket captive dual-spring Gen4 RSA that can be easily disassembled to install custom-strength Wolff springs is available from Lone Wolf for the Gen4 G20/G21/G41. For the Gen4 G21, the other options are to install a Gen4 guide rod adapter and aftermarket Gen3 single-spring RSA with a stronger spring, or try using the factory 17-lb. dual-spring Gen4 RSA which is actually quite robust compared to a single-spring RSA.

    When firing full-power 10mm loads, avoid conditions that increase the risk of an out-of-battery detonation which can cause serious damage to the pistol and personal injury. To minimize this risk, pay careful attention to the condition and quality of the ammo, always keep the barrel chamber clean and use a stronger recoil spring maintained in good condition. A stronger recoil spring also yields more consistent muzzle velocity from shot to shot for a given ammo load.

    The experienced 10mm shooters at Glock Talk in The 10 Ring forum can give you advice on the appropriate guide rod and recoil spring strength.

    Recommended VIDEO viewing: Glock 21 10mm Conversion: Review & How To (HD) This is a YouTube video produced by Glock Talk member plouffedaddy posted on his Mrgunsngear Channel.

    _______________________________________
    Footnotes

    1.
    Photo comparison of 10mm G20 factory slide (left) and 45ACP G21 factory slide (right). The muzzle end of the slides are at the bottom of the photo. Note the milled area on both sides in the interior of the G21 slide removing non-structural mass forward of the chamber opening.

    G20LvsG21R_slides[1].jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2016
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