Griffin debriefing and photo thread

Discussion in 'GSSF' started by BamaTrooper, Feb 23, 2013.

  1. mikey357


    According to Scott Gilbertson, that 714 count would be the Fifth-largest GSSF Match EVER...In only the Griffin Gun Club's THIRD YEAR of hosting GSSF Matches...and 2012's Griffin Match is ALSO in the "Top Five"! AWESOME!!!... :) ....mikey357

    Wanna kill these ads? We can help!
  2. Yes, I see them very, very small - about the size of a "thumbnail". :embarassed:

  3. Thanks to the Griffin and GSSF crews for a great match. They had their act togather this time. I got thru 6 divisions in 2 hours on Saturday. Getting the timers set so you can shoot side by side setups really speeds things up. I hope GSSF keeps up this practice for the future.
  4. so someone listened to Kitty.
  5. Thanks for the kind words Bryan! Look forward to the next time I see you.:wavey:
  6. legacy38

    Millennium Member

    Yes and no. It's faster, but there are also issues with hearing the RO. I couldn't hear the instructions being given, and as there was nobody in line behind me, I declined to shoot while the guy next to me was blasting.
  7. Simultaneous stages are still a work in progress. The larger matches have to look for ways to reduce wait times for the shooters. As we move forward I'm sure that we will be able to find solutions for the few negative issues that multi set up bays present. Hope your overall experience was good!
  8. No, the rest of GSSF listened to Mark........:supergrin:
  9. I love Mark. He is perhaps, the new GSSF savior. But long before Mark was even a GSSF employee I have been on this forum singing the virtues of simultaneous shooters with reduced timer sensitivities. It's a no-brainer to me and we do it (and have been doing it) at our Steel practices and matches forever. But things (particularly RO things) that are common in other disciplines are frequently lost in GSSF translation.

    Not all shooters are fond of it - and Legacy has voiced his displeasure about it for nearly as long as I have been advocating it. But at large matches this simply MUST be done - it essentially reduces wait times by 1/2 to 2/3.

    Not certain I understand why range commands/instructions cannot be heard by some with simultaneous/adjacent shooting going on; I have a significant hearing loss, don't use electronic muffs all the time, and have never had a problem hearing commands at GSSF (or Steel). Other shooter's rounds I can simply tune out.

    The first match I was at where this was proactively used at all stages was Mobile. Mark was officiating - but Bama had counted on doing it for many months before the match and planned accordingly. It really took off at Conyers where Mark led the charge again.

    The only real problem is educating ROs who - on a very good day - may hold the timer at the shooter's ear to begin, but then drop the timer down to their side for the string. This simply cannot be done with those reduced timer sensitivities. Now, at each RO brief that I attend I make it a point to raise my hand and spell this out specifically, as I did in Orlando. Yet, in Orlando I observed an RO dropping the timer so went up and checked his shot string and found the timer had recorded 8 of the 9 shots. Presumably... all the shooter's times run by this RO prior to correcting his 'technique' were highly suspect. The timer MUST be pointed (and remain pointed) at the muzzle and not at adjacent shooters/shooter's muzzles. It works - and has been working for savvy ROs and MDs in other disciplines forever.

    Mark is not the first to advocate this tecnique, but is the first GSSF ambassador to get 'er done! You can probably thank Cindy a bit for that alone as she is the one who helped with the decision to hire Mark. Great decision!

    #29 SARDG, Feb 27, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
  10. Yeah, Scott is really lucky to have Mark and Cindy there to set him straight.
  11. legacy38

    Millennium Member

    My issue at Griffin was that I could not hear the commands of the RO with the other guy shooting. Had I been able to hear the RO, I would not have voiced an objection. There were no shooters behind me waiting to shoot; so, it was not an issue.

    I have previously run into a situation where both ROs where giving commands at the same time, and I wasn't sure which timer was which, and I was granted a re-shoot when I started on the wrong timer.

    I have no issue with simultaneous shooters at all if the RO will be loud enough to be heard clearly over the gunfire or they aren't talking over each other.
    #31 legacy38, Feb 27, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
  12. Note to self (and all ROs):
    Hold timer directly at ear of shooter.
    Speak loudly and clearly.

    posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
  13. With my electronic earmuffs, I never have a problem hearing "my" RO, nor not hearing "my" commands or "my" beep.

    I suppose it is a problem for those using less sophisticated hearing protection, though, and ROs need to compensate.
  14. legacy38

    Millennium Member

    I was wearing electronic hearing protection.
  15. mikey357


    Were you wearing ONLY the Electronic Hearing Protection? The reason I ask is that with only Electronic "Muffs", I, too, sometimes have problems hearing Range Commands in similar situations...

    HOWEVER, if I "Double Plug" & use Plugs AND the Electronics w/the Electronics VOLUME turned all the way UP, voila--Success! You might try that--If you haven't already...HTH....mikey357
    #35 mikey357, Feb 28, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2013
  16. Glockrunner

    Glockrunner HOOYA DEEPSEA

    I’m confused by your statement. It sounds like you mean to say that you can't hear the your RO giving commands but you can heard the RO in the next stall over and started a string on the other RO's timer. If you could hear the farther RO speaking to the shooter I can't understand why you could not hear your own.

    I could say this too about RO's: not all understand the proper method of stance with a shooter on the line.

    That said, I'm sure I need to expound on it. In the best of all worlds, and when safety is paramount the RO has to get in the correct frame of mind. It is kind of like the cop directing a crash scene. The RO has to take control of all the players and focus on his job each time his range is going hot.

    That entails properly witnessing the positions of all the bystanders (looking for eyes & ear protection, ensuring the range is clear for gunfire etc). Positions themselves where they can take immediate control of the firearm before it is taken from the holster or bag (Timer in the weak hand leaving the strong hand to take action when necessary).

    Focus then on the shooter and solely on the pistol after the command to Draw your pistol and.... Te whole time that pistol is in the hands of the shooter, the RO's focus should be on the pistol. (In the back of their mind they know where it is pointing) and they to be in a position to grab the weapon IF necessary, in a last ditch effort for the sake of safety and control. Their sight should never leave the gun until it is back in the holster or bag.

    Yea, they don't get to watch the shooter hitting the target (like many do). They don't get to catch the flying brass (like some I have seen). They don't get to see if the shooter is slightly shooting the target out of sequence.

    The Recorder RO is watching the overall situation and not worried at that point with scoring. He should be looking for procedurals by the shooter and keeping an eye on the firing line too.

    If anything happens out of the ordinary, the Chief RO will have the strong hand available to control the shooter and pistol. The timer can be dropped if it is necessary for safety.

    So now we have a RO on the strong side of the shooter, with the timer in the hand closest to the shooter (that places the timer closest to the shooter/head/ears). The RO stands "slightly" to the rear of the shooter as to not interfere with the shooters vision of the stage, and (as close) close to the shooter (for control of the weapon if necessary). In that position the RO should be able to witness every round fired, the cycling of the weapon and direction of the muzzle while being able to disarm the shooter.

    Maybe we need to renew that with new RO's so the timer gets next to the ear and not out in front of the muzzle where it is hard for the shooter to hear it. And this position places the RO's face slightly toward the shooter (kind of face to face) so commands can be given in a manner the shooter cannot ignore.
    #36 Glockrunner, Mar 1, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
  17. Wonderful Bob, and all correct (and safe) procedures of course. But to my knowledge (and observation), there are precious few ROs in the entire GSSF system who do it that (correct) way and they can be counted on one hand; you, me, Ed (emtjr928), and I hope and think Scott (PM720, on the west coast), and Larry (misunderestimated, on the east coast). Just look at all the pictures ever posted of any RO other than those 5 and you'll see timers at sides and pointed in the air and CROs gazing at targets.

    Some ROs remain open to suggestion - but most "have been doing it a long time" and "have always done it that (the wrong) way", won't listen and will continue to do it the wrong way.

    I, Ed, and I hope the rest continue to train who we can. I have (most unfortunately) given up on wholesale training of ROs and work with individuals when I can.

    Thanks for your post and reminder.

  18. legacy38

    Millennium Member

    At a previous match, two ROs were trying to start shooters in adjacent bays at the same time, and I started on the wrong beep.

    At this match, I could not hear the instructions being given by the RO. He was talking. I couldn't understand what he was saying. I declined to shoot until the other shooter was finished. There wasn't a shooter in line behind me. It didn't cause a delay for anyone other than me.
    #38 legacy38, Mar 1, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
  19. Glockrunner

    Glockrunner HOOYA DEEPSEA

    In that case I too would have reacted the same. As the shooter and confused, I refuse to react to anything until I have the attention of the RO. I just stand there, gun pointed in a low ready. I may or may not look in his/her direction.

    When confusion startsthe best react is no reaction. Some may say to place the pistol on the table or barrel but I disagree with this. I want to maintain control over my pistol at all cost.
  20. How about asking your RO to hold off on his commands until the RO in the other setup has started "his" shooter?

    Then, you might be heaiing his commands through the shooting next to you, but at least you can be sure the commands, and the "beep" you hear, is actually yours.

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