Green Laser Not Brighter Than Red: Update

Discussion in 'Sights, Optics and Lasers' started by bustedknee, Apr 27, 2011.


  1. bustedknee

    bustedknee Curmudgeon

    Some time back I participated in a discussion here about green vs red lasers.

    I had a green laser in which I had paid quite a bit more money then what a red laser would have cost and the green was no brighter.

    Several people seemed to be personaly insulted and hinted that I was a bold faced liar.

    Be that as it may. I put it on a 22 rifle and there it sat unused. Until one day I screwed it on a Glock 19 after putting in new batteries.

    Outside on a bright day I was surprised to see the green laser show up on the target brighter than the red! Wow!

    I fired 10 rounds then turned the laser off while I reloaded. Back on, the green did not show up on the target.

    I cleaned the lense. Still dim.

    I changed the batteries. Still dim.

    When I shined the laser on the wall of the shop, the green dot was surrounded by a softball-sized pattern of what I call sparkle. I have several lasers by both CT and LM and all have some sparkle but not this much.

    I cleaned the lense again, cleaned the terminals, checked voltage, then ran back outside to see if the green dot would show on the target. Still dim.

    I contacted LM and they were very nice, wanting the unit returned so they could make me happy. I found their customer service to be very friendly and prompt when I had problems with my guide-rod red laser.

    On Tuesday my laser arrived back home via UPS. It is now brighter than the red and has minimal sparkle.
    The enclosed paperwork says they replaced the dead batteries in my unit and cleaned the lense. That is what I did, too!

    Now, at least, I believe the green laser can be more visable than the red laser.
    However, I do not trust this laser.

    I have owned 2 LM lasers and both had to be returned. Not a good track record.

    I believe LM either fixed the unit and did not want to admit the problem or they found no problem and the unit is interrmitent.

    I suspect the latter. Either way, I'm leery. It will go back on the 22.

    Just some info in case you are having problems or considering the purchase of a laser.
     

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    #1 bustedknee, Apr 27, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2011
  2. RayB

    RayB Retired Member

    Bright green certainly does appear brighter to the human eye-brain than red--at least 99% of people see it that way. :wow:

    In astronomy we like to use red flashlights, because red preserves night vision. That's why aircraft instruments are traditionally illuminated in red light. :cool:

    In astronomy we like to use green laser pointers because they describe a visible beam in the clear night sky, to point out celestial objects, where red lasers generally do not describe a visible beam in a clear sky. :eyebrow:

    If you would indulge my curiosity, would you please describe the details of the problems involved with your other LaserMaz laser, and what the outcome was? :dunno:

    Also, and with all respect, I can't help but notice your large-case type... Do you have vision problems in general? I know many of us do! :freak:

    --Ray

    P.S. You can get a bad batch of batteries--it has happened to me! :frown:
     

    #2 RayB, Apr 27, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2011
  3. NMGlocker

    NMGlocker BOOM headshot

    My Viridian green laser is visible in daylight out to 20 yards on an IDPA target.
    My Crimson Trace red laser is visible out to around 7-10 yards under the same conditions.
     
  4. bustedknee

    bustedknee Curmudgeon

    1 The other problem laser is a guide-rod laser in my G33. It turned itself on and off while firing so it was worthless for anything but the first shot. When the dot began to spread (sparkle) I finally got fed up enough to pull it out of the gun and send it back. The replacement came with a new switch and now works as advertised.

    2 I have a buddy that is losing his eyesight and asked if his friends would up the size of their type by just one step.
    His other option was to change the setting on his computer for larger display but when he did that all the data would no longer fit on the page.
    After I started doing this, I was in a discussion on another board where several people stated their appreciation for the larger print.
    It is interesting to note, a couple people felt they were being shouted-at.
    It is my understanding that all caps denotes shouting not larger print .

    3 That is good information on the batteries because I buy in bulk. The ones I have tested had equal voltage levels. Do you know the problem with the batteries? Low/no voltage, low current? If one battery in the stack is weak (or dead) will the dot be dim or will it cease to function?
    I figured if the voltage is high enough to fire the laser it should produce the proper intensity.
     
    #4 bustedknee, Apr 27, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2011
  5. RayB

    RayB Retired Member


    1) Yeah, the first guide rod laser we bought for Judy's G19 was hinky right out of the box, so I exchanged it with MidwayUSA. The replacement has been flawless. :sigh:

    The guide rod laser in my G21 will occasionally turn itself during firing, especially when using say, Double Tap ammo; but it never fails to activate, so it's NBD to me. :dunno:

    2) Understood! I use Arial 12 as my default in email and Word documents, as a concession to my 56-year old diabetic eyes. :fred:

    My last eye exam, earlier this month, showed zero problems, but some of my meds mess with my vision. :freak:

    The human eye-brain does perceive things uniquely. For example, black and white are spectroscopic opposites, yet most of us see yellow and black as a stronger contrast. I know I prefer yellow shooting glasses, as details seem to "pop" for me, with yellow glasses on! :cool:

    3) Yeah, it makes a difference... Take an Insight WX150 Weapon Light, which uses two 3-volt batteries to supply six volts, so if one battery is low... And I know my LaserMax guide rod and Uni-Green lasers act funky when the batteries run low... :eyebrow:

    --Ray
     
  6. I've heard that the "sparkle" you were referring to, can be caused by moisture on the INSIDE of one of the lenses. Perhaps they cleaned the inside of the lens which took care of both problems (a light beam that is scattered by debris on the lens can also appear dimmer).
     
  7. happyguy

    happyguy Man, I'm Pretty

    Regards,
    Happyguy :)
     
    #7 happyguy, Apr 28, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2011
  8. bustedknee

    bustedknee Curmudgeon

    Update to the update:

    The laser came back from LM with a note that said, "Cleaned lense and changed batteries."

    I put it on my Glock 19. It failed after 6 shots. Went out, dark!

    I operated the switch several times but no light. I tapped the bottom of the unit and the laser came on.

    Several more shots and the laser went black again. Tapping will not bring it back to life.

    I contacted LM. I hope they can do something this time.

    This is getting old.
     
  9. RayB

    RayB Retired Member


    Man... :shakehead:

    At this point, IMO, at the very least, the OEM should exchange your laser for a range-tested, brand new one. :miff:

    For your part, if they tell you to replace all the old components with the new ones supplied, do it, and do it carefully. Don't skip anything. Don't just pop in the guide rod part, and then complain again. If you've done your part, and the unit fails, they should refund your money. :dunno:

    Yes, these are consumer products. But IMO, they should not be ordinary consumer products, given the nature of their application. I expect things like nuclear reactor components, aircraft components, surgical implants, medications, automotive brake components, and integrated weapons systems, to be held to a higher standard than toaster ovens and DVD players! :steamed:

    Had my own experience been anything like yours, I'd be seriously PO'd! :fist:

    Please keep us posted! :eyebrow:

    --Ray
     
  10. bustedknee

    bustedknee Curmudgeon

    I am trying to be patient.

    I would expect this kind of product performance from one of those $29 lasers but with what LM charged for their green laser....

    LM's service dept has been so nice it is difficult to yell at them.


     
  11. bustedknee

    bustedknee Curmudgeon

    Yet another update.

    My laser came back with a note that said, "Defective circuit card replaced."

    It is still doing the same old thing. Going dim, going dark, etc. I'm talking to customer service yet again. Could it be the switch?

    Maybe, I'm limp-wristing?


    I was told they are sending me a replacement unit. Yeeehaw! Standby.

     
    #11 bustedknee, Jun 13, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2011
  12. Genin

    Genin Designated Left

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    limp-wristing LMAO!

    this really does stink. hopefully they make it right for you soon.
     
  13. Glock21Owner

    Glock21Owner NRA Life Member

    My UniMax green had a sensitive on/off switch and was replaced. It was bad right out of the box but it has been working fine since it's been back. Hope I haven't jinxed myself now.
     
  14. RayB

    RayB Retired Member


    I too have found LaserMax customer service to be excellent, but your patience is approaching Sainthood... :upeyes:

    --Ray
     
  15. bustedknee

    bustedknee Curmudgeon

    Now there is something I have never been accused of.


    The new laser arrived and I sent the old laser back to LM.

    The new laser lasted through the setting of the dot to the point of aim.
    I'm gaining ground.

    After two shots, the laser shifted up 6 inches and left 4 inches.
    I readjusted.

    A few more shots and the dot again moved. But only a couple inches this time. Readjusted.

    A few more shots and another small shift. Readjusted.

    After 50 rounds the dot has pretty much stabilized around the POA. I have no idea if it will remain solid, but this is a great improvement over the first laser.

    I can say it is slightly brighter than a red laser.

    I feel I have no choice but to question the quality of these lasers. I am also concerned with their customer service. It appears they replaced the batteries and cleaned the lense the first time I sent the laser back rather than run some tests.
    The second time they replaced a circuit card and the problem was still there from the second I turned it on. Still, no tests?
    If this is how they troubleshoot, maybe they should replace every "problem" laser with a new one the first time around.

    I really want this laser to work. It will be a great tool around the farm after dark. But it will take several boxes of ammo to convince me it is reliable and worth the money.

    I do appreciate LaserMax replacing the thing even though I almost had to become a saint to get it. :animlol:



     
  16. My Surefire X400 is quite visible in bright sunlight at 25 yards. It is probably visible farther than that but I haven't tried any targets past 25 yards. I'm sure a green laser would be brighter but I have no need for anything brighter. In fact, in a dark room the green laser might be too bright, although I don't think that should be a serious issue.
     
  17. RayB

    RayB Retired Member


    The green laser produces a visible beam which is traceable right back to the shooter in typical outdoor air at night. :cool:

    This is why green lasers have been used in teaching astronomy. :whistling:

    For me it's a non issue, but in some tactical situations it might be best avoided. :shocked:

    --Ray
     

  18. I have spent many years in research work using solid state lasers and the industry definition of a failed laser is when the intensity is reduced by 1/2. They fade out not go off like a switch. (they can go quick but it is not typical)
     
  19. Yes, but I was thinking more about use indoors when you most likely will use the laser in conjunction with a bright light. In that case it doesn't make much difference. Shooting at things in the dark without identifying them is not a good thing either indoors or outdoors. :supergrin:
     

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