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Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by firemax, Feb 6, 2013.
Because you don't have the money?
Or because you think it's not worth that much to anyone else ?
So you are saying that I am not free to oppose your ideals until... when? And i noticed you are a US HERE kind of guy that needs to throw stones when you have a crowd behind you supporting you. Be unafraid of my statements. They are only my opinions that I am, as you put it "entitled" to.No one on this or any other 4m knows that any better than me. It is my opinion, and it ain't always right or perfect.
I was talking about 1987 "Black Friday. The two are connected. Look at the link below. I am well aware of the Hunt Bro's as well as almost everyone is. Black Monday refers to Monday October 19, 1987, when stock markets around the world crashed, shedding a huge value in a very short time. The crash began in Hong Kong and spread west to Europe, hitting the United States after other markets had already declined by a significant margin. The Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) dropped by 508 points to 1738.74 (22.61%).
By the end of October, stock markets in Hong Kong had fallen 45.5%, Australia 41.8%, Spain 31%, the United Kingdom 26.45%, the United States 22.68%, and Canada 22.5%. New Zealand's market was hit especially hard, falling about 60% from its 1987 peak, and taking several years to recover. (The terms Black Monday and Black Tuesday are also applied to October 28 and 29, 1929, which occurred after Black Thursday on October 24, which started the Stock Market Crash of 1929. In Australia and New Zealand the 1987 crash is also referred to as Black Tuesday because of the timezone difference.) The Black Monday decline was the largest one-day percentage decline in the Dow Jones. (Saturday, December 12, 1914, is sometimes erroneously cited as the largest one-day percentage decline of the DJIA. In reality, the ostensible decline of 24.39% was created retroactively by a redefinition of the DJIA in 1916.)
Following the stock market crash, a group of 33 eminent economists from various nations met in Washington, D.C. in December 1987, and collectively predicted that “the next few years could be the most troubled since the 1930s”. However, the DJIA was positive for the 1987 calendar year. It opened on January 2, 1987 at 1,897 points and closed on December 31, 1987 at 1,939 points. The DJIA did not regain its August 25, 1987 closing high of 2,722 points until almost two years later. Look at the chart below (Link)
http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/silver/880798.pdf0 This was caused by overpricing and not having silver or gold backing the dollar. When we no longer have to prove the true worth of something, overpricing, driven by greed is inevitable, If you dare look at history and you will see it.
I disagree with the OP. the free market system works. It only fails when people start screwing with how it works.
The OP has this matter backwards. A large group of people are a high-strung, panicky, mostly mindless creature. If spooked it will stampede, just like a herd of cattle. Well, that shooting started a stampede. A stampede of panic-buying. What reins in a buying stampede? Well, higher prices do, don't they? How long do you think the buying trend would continue unchecked if the prices didn't rise?
Do people make money in the process? Damned straight. The people who had the resources and initiative and maybe the luck to make some money will do so. They spend the time and they take the risk. If they are wrong, if the bubble breaks, if they are unlucky, they lose. No one will help them recover from their loss. They took their chances. If they succeed, if they find a product and willing customers, they make money. That is how the system works. Buyers drive the market, not sellers.
Price gouging usually refers to profiteering on life-sustaining commodities, like food, medicine, fuel, etc. It may be argued that guns may be used to save lives, but they do not fall into that category. What changed between 13 December and 14 December that made it absolutely vital for so many people to have guns and ammo? I am guessing that most people who think about such things, thought themselves adequately armed and provisioned on 13 December. A lot of people panicked on 14 December and the run was on, but nothing changed that made more guns and ammo a matter of dire emergency. People stampeded.
This is not a matter of evil profiteers keeping food out of the mouths of babies. It is a matter of some people with some forethought and resourcefulness turning a profit off of a bunch of cattle that have decided they desperately need something they didn't want enough to buy two months ago and in doing so, they help to stop the stampede. The buyers are driving this, folks. Eric
"You just made the list, buddy!"
Lighten up, Francis.
Huh? I don't believe even the HUNT BROS went to prison. Who went to prison for 1987???
Where did you C/P that from???? Do you do your own thinking or just read webpages that cater to your paranoid tendencies. Blah blah blah stock market blah blah crash blah blah aaaaand ALIENS, I mean GOLD/SILVER!
(I find it interesting you left the part of the C/P in that stated that if you bought on Jan 1, 1987 and sold on Dec 31, 1987, you MADE MONEY!)
You gotta be kidding me. You can't believe what you just posted. Am I right in thinking" this guy has gotta be a gouger and has a guilt complex"??? Notice the ??? I am just observing and guessing, no judgement.
Big Giant Head - LAUNCH!
Am I a price gouger? No. I wouldn't even be a price gouger if your wrong-headed meaning of the term were correct. I don't have a dog in this hunt. It says a lot about you though that your first impulse was to insult me and assume I must be doing something wrong. No judgement, indeed.
I believe what I said and I think you are absolutely, completely wrong. There are plenty of people like you out there nursing sour grapes because of the current situation and you all feel the need to blame someone. Well, blame the people clambering over each other to buy buy buy. Blame human nature. Blame yourself for not already acquiring whatever it is you think is so damned important for you to own now now now.
I will say again that the buyers are driving this bus, not the sellers. That is a fact. If buyers did not want to buy at the price the sellers are asking, they have the option of simply walking away. Doing so would make the sellers adjust their prices downward. The free market system works. Sitting around *****ing about it and Human nature won't change anything. Eric
All gougers are opportunistic scum hurting this country by driving up prices, and selling their soul for money. You are in trouble if and when the stuff hits the fan. In your twisted mind it is ok to get yours and screw everyone else. I know you are not able to see this but it is not free enterprise. Free enterprise is not driven by greedy parasites but created by the hard work and risk of true business people who contribute to the economy. They create jobs for other people not take an advantage for money without hurting others. Gougers are kinda like a drug pusher but you can't get arrested for it. As for sour grapes, I have none. I do Very well as I stated I retired at age 54. I just love this country and hate the things people do without caring about the welfare of others and calling that conservative enterprise. It is not a conservative position to "Get mine at any cost to everyone else" It is about keeping our freedoms and preserving the constitution. I am not the enemy, I'm just saying think about it from another perspective and don't get offended at my opinion. Usually people get offended if the shoe fits. I am not offended at what anyone thinks about me or how I look at this subject. I expected this kind of response. Some people attack out of instinct to being offended. Others simply state their opinion without character attacks on someone they never even met. You may like me and just disagree with me on this one and only point. I would venture to guess that you and I agree on most other things.
Gougers can be and are prosecuted, when it is gouging. 5 or 10 bucks for a bottle of water or bag of ice after a disaster, 200 for plywood when a hurricane is on the way is gouging. Charging what the market will bear for items that are not necessary is free enterprise.
Never. Where do you get the idea that I'm someone who says what you're free to do?
Grammar aside, no one's behind me.
I didn't say you were entitled to anything.
On that point we agree. Yay!
Buddy, you need to take a couple of big steps back and breathe deeply for a moment.
You obviously have some strong feelings on this subject, but they are feelings, not facts. I think you are confusing free market economics with socialism. The free market system is based on supply and demand. Supply and demand, in balance. If demand goes up or down, balance is lost. Therefore supply must move to restore balance. That is how it works. Demand drives the process, but supply helps to regulate demand through price.
I will say once again that we are not talking about life-sustaining commodities here. We are discussing wants, not needs, not must-haves. If buyers weren't buying, sellers would lower their prices to attract them. Buyers have the choice to buy and buyers set the market. Deny the facts and reality if you like. This is simply how it works. Eric
Please read the full portion of this quote above. I was not finished and posted it by accident. sorry if I offended anyone. I will never be able to see gouging as what free enterprise was meant to be
Seriously, who is too lazy to type out "forum"?
Well, looks like we have a future Democrat politician in our midst.
You FEEL like Person A has something that should belong to Person B and FEEL like something should be done about it. We got Obamacare shoved down our throats on this logic. (Since the dawn of man, people with more Wampum got better medical care than people with no Wampum. Still happens today. Medical care was not designed to be equal.)
And then you pull the "I'm AOK" and the "I expected as much here" lines??? If you expected this - why did you bother posting it???? This isn't a debate. You are just flat-out wrong. It's like arguing if wolves should raise my first-born. You may have an OPINION that they should, that doesn't make this a debate.
Worse is, on an IOS device, that stupid ' sign is a PITA to get to. After a couple of years on them, even on a keyboard, I avoid them like the plague.
You really shouldn't stop taking your meds without talking it over with your Doctor first.
Not to mention that "4m's" is not an appropriate plural.
OK, let's say taking 4 packets of Sweet & Low a day will cure and prevent cancer.
And let's say the current production of S&L is only about 100 million units per day.
Let's also say it takes the S&L factory 6 months to tool-up to the 1.2 trillion packets a day they need to supply the country. (Screw the rest of the world.)
What you'd like is for everyone to keep paying 3c or so per packet. And then just whomever gets the packets will get em.
What if I have cancer. I'd pay $50 a day for them things! Wouldn't I?
How do you propose, in a free market society, to divvy up the packets that are made per day? Pass a law that only cancer patients can own S&L? Force price limits? Create a one-packet-per-day limit on people with a S&L card to track who's bought what when? Make it illegal to sell S&L without a government license???
The bottom line, as Eric mentioned, is that free market is a perfect system. When bombarded with high demand and low supply, prices jump drastically to control the flow. Once demand drops and/or supply rises, prices normalize and life goes back to normal.
Why do we care about what Person X is charging for a AR15???? If I need an AR15, I'm stuck paying that price if I need it RIGHT NOW. (Who needs an AR RIGHT NOW anyways?) And if I don't, I wont' buy one. It's that simple. You are arguing that people can't charge what they want for magazines, guns and bullets. We are saying, "If you want to make a list, go for it. We can't be bothered."