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Got my FFL and I have a question

Discussion in 'General Firearms Forum' started by Glock 1, Nov 28, 2011.

  1. Glock 1

    Glock 1

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    Aug 21, 2011
    Texas
    After almost 3 months, I finally have my FFL in hand. It came Saturday and I was quite surprised.

    I have a question for all you FFL holders though. All I got was a single piece of paper. Will I get anything else? Like a convenient card to carry around should I chose to buy something while I am out and about?

    I confess I was expecting a card with my picture since they asked for a pic anyway. Seems to me this piece of paper would be easily used by another person should they chose to be dishonest and steal a copy. Especially since I have to send a copy with all my weapons I mail to fellow FFL's.
     
  2. Chuche2

    Chuche2

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    Sep 30, 2010
    East Tennessee
    That's all you will get. When we fax or send one with a common carrier we stamp it: FILE COPY ONLY.
     

  3. Decguns

    Decguns

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    Dec 29, 2003
    NC
    All you get is a license. You make copies of it and sign them. Most FFLs prefer you sign them in blue or red ink, even though a FAX'd copy of your signed licensed is now legal to make transfers (didn't used to be that way). There's also the FFL check on the ATF web site too. If I'm dealing with an FFL I don't know personally, I'll check their ID with their license. In a lot of face to face deals, savvy dealers also make a copy of your ID. Wholesalers will only send guns to the address on your license.

    These are all things I wish people would learn before they get an FFL or C&R. Ignorance of standard procedures and the law can get you in hot water quick. Ignorance is not a defense in court.
     
  4. Travclem

    Travclem Badass Member Lifetime Member

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    Lubbock, TX
    Make one copy and stamp it "File copy only" then make several hundred copies of this one to keep on hand. Keep your original in a safe place.
     
  5. Glock 1

    Glock 1

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    Aug 21, 2011
    Texas
    Yeah I knew about the File Copy only. I ordered a stamp for that, the FFL# and the business name (3 stamps). The ATF guy covered all this. I was just curious about the paper as it kinda seems flimsy. They put more effort into my driver’s license. Lol

    I laminated my original after signing it. I have made many copies (before signature) and will use those. I have about 50 very high quality copies that I will use to make subsequent copies as the quality degrades if you over copy a copy.

    Should I have not signed the original?

    I have the ATF site FFL ezCheck saved on my computer along with a handheld image scanner for DL copies. IT is my career so CYA is second nature for me. I already have my A&D book (nobody told me about this) and ordered all my forms off the ATF site. My first couple of orders will be nerve racking I am sure. Just making sure I dot all my “I’s” and cross all my “t’s”.
     
  6. TN.Frank

    TN.Frank Glock4Life

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    Oct 11, 2004
    Avondale, AZ.
    Not sure about your Type 01 but with my Type 03, C&R Lic. I got a set of books that had all the laws listed along with which firearms were C&R.
    As other's have said, don't sign your original FFL, only sign the copies. You'll also need to keep a Bound Book(Brownell's sells them) and all the 4473's that folks fill out.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 13, 2012
  7. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    Be sure not to sign your original - at least they used to always want original signatures on the copies. May have changed with faxes and stuiff since I had one.
     
  8. Glock 1

    Glock 1

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    Aug 21, 2011
    Texas
    My ATF agent brought all of that to me when he did my interview. I got a couple of big books, some signage and alot of forms.

    They still want original signatures. I did sign the original but took care of the copies first.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2011
  9. The_Gun_Guru

    The_Gun_Guru Build the Wall


    ABSOLUTELY!!! You are NOT supposed to sign the original:wavey:

    Not saying it will be an issue but it's very likely that it will be.

    Good luck with your firearms business and don't forget....



    Glock Talk member discounts are appreciated!:wavey:

    TGG
     
  10. Glock 1

    Glock 1

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    Aug 21, 2011
    Texas
    You guys and gals will get the best deals I can give. I cant go into yet but it will happen. I will call the Agent and see if I can get a copy just in case.
     
  11. Mr. Blandings

    Mr. Blandings

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    Jun 20, 2001
    Florida
    Wow. Joining "the industry", but completely unaware of the most basic info.

    Seriously, please read those "big books". One of them will talk about the previously unmentioned A&D book.. a lot.

    "Handheld image scanner for DL copies"? Is keeping a copy of the DL/ID a requirement under your state law or local ordinance? Federal law does NOT require such (check those "big books").
     
  12. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    Jan 16, 2005
    Kentucky

    I would think he can take one of his copies, cut-out or white-out the signature, then make his copies for original signature.
     
  13. srwm4

    srwm4

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    Mass.
    OP said he made un-signed copies before signing the original, so none of this should really be an issue for him. 3 years from now, he'll get a new license anyway, and he'll know not to sign the original anymore.

    No harm, no foul.
     
  14. The_Gun_Guru

    The_Gun_Guru Build the Wall


    You both make a good point, but....

    Fact is he still signed the original when he should NOT have signed it!!!!:wavey:

    I don't sign my ORIGINAL C&R because it clearly states, DO NOT SIGN ORIGINAL!!!!


    Just sayin.


    TGG
     
  15. ggarciatx

    ggarciatx Cold War Sailor

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    Aug 28, 2004
    South Texas
    Do not put off acquisitons or dispositions because you are tired, will do it tomorrow, it's late, etc. etc.... It is easy to forget and you might lose an entry. If and when they do an inspection, they will just scoop up your book and you cannot touch it when they do. I know one former FFL who would put off things and he got inspected. He had all the receipts at the front of the book and had not entered them for a week. He got a suprise inspection and got raked over the coals.
    Protect that A&D book no matter what. Keep it in a waterproof locked place. Do not ever lose that book. When I worked for a gunstore/pawnshop, the first thing put away was the A&D book. It was more important than the other items to be put away at the end of the day.
    Do not let any other "friends" look thru the A&D book. A part time employee of a rival local pawnshop that went out of business would look thru the A&D to see what guns were coming up for sale. He would tell his friends he was expecting a gun coming out that he planned on buying. He would show his friends the book, but one of them was a closet home burglar and hit houses based on the info provided. This was over 15 years ago. Idiot got caught and fessed up how he knew firearms were in the peoples homes.
    always double check the 4473's, does not matter if the guy filling it out has bought a 100 guns from you. Sometimes they leave something out by mistake.
    Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2011
  16. Glock 1

    Glock 1

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    Aug 21, 2011
    Texas
    A funny thing about online forums like this is that you join so you can respond to help others by giving advice and guidance based on your knowledge and experience. Or, you can respond sarcastically and be counterproductive. I think sarcastic posts means you need to take a break from places like this and go get some fresh air or go shoot. I love to shoot. I find it clears my mind. I hope that helps.

    Anyway, some of you have been very helpful and I appreciate that. You have provided many good tips above, especially since I haven’t started selling yet. I am still learning and yes, I am even reading the “big books”.

    I have my A/D book and it is secure. I know it is extremely important and I know the ramifications of not keeping proper records. I am in the IT field by trade and compared to network security, gun sales paperwork pales in comparison. Record keeping shall be done correctly and promptly. I have no desire to go to jail.

    The ATF agreed that the copies I made should suffice as long as they have an original signature which was my plan. They also said the signed original is not a problem as long as I have a supply of unsigned copies that are legible.
    50 HD copies make an infinite number of copies. If I sell that many guns, I will hire someone to do it for me.

    Also, my license does NOT state not to sign it. I read it front and back. My license says revised October 2011 so maybe they changed it but I assure you it does NOT state to not sign the original.

    I know this business is very detail oriented and I know I have to be careful because the ATF can and will rape me over the coals if I screw up. Contrary to popular belief, I did do my research before applying. I came here and posted for advice from others and it would benefit me greatly to heed said advice based on others mistakes as mentioned above and save myself some headaches.

    Once again, thank you again for all the guidance, it is greatly appreciated. Keep the tips coming if you think of anything else.
     
  17. Glock 1

    Glock 1

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    Aug 21, 2011
    Texas
    Read a crap load of books now and have yet another pack to pick up at the post office tomorrow from the DOJ. How many books will they send me? I keep getting stuff from them.
     
  18. Glock 1

    Glock 1

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    Aug 21, 2011
    Texas
    Don't get me wrong, its not that I mind but just as I think I can't read anymore boring ass laws I get another package.
     
  19. Mr. Blandings

    Mr. Blandings

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    Jun 20, 2001
    Florida
    Hey Glock 1,

    I apologize. I should have checked myself on that post, but failed in that regard.

    The ATF website (atf.gov) provides a pretty extensive archive of past FFL Newsletters, FAQs, rulings, and other valuable resources. If you want a break from the "big books" the website can help.

    If you ever really want to dive off the deep end and try to figure out how to make sense of it all, check out the mirror site of James Bardwell's extensive list of ATF letters, rulings, case law decisions and more at: http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/

    Alan Korwin is a publisher who has produced a plethora of books explaining the federal gun laws, the gun laws of many different states, and I see he even has a book explaining worldwide gun laws now. His website, gunlaws.com, may be useful to you.
     
  20. Glock 1

    Glock 1

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    Aug 21, 2011
    Texas
    No worries at all. I have been an admin on a lot of forums like these in my time and know that the same ole, same ole gets old. Seeing someone embark on something that is as important as this with seemingly no knowledge can sometimes be frustrating.

    Thank you for the post and the information. I have officially begun selling on Gunbroker. Just a couple of consignment guns from a close friend. I also sold me first new Glock today to local guy so I will get to experience the NICS and 4473 form which I have been going over lately to make sure I don’t make any mistakes.