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Glock generations, "gills", 2- & 3-pin frames, and other helpful photos

Discussion in 'Valuable Info' started by DJ Niner, Apr 30, 2012.

  1. Sergeantgrunt

    Sergeantgrunt

    3
    1
    Aug 16, 2014
    Hey guys, This is a great post. I have a G27 Gen 2.5 as well. What I can't figure out is my SN. It's BWE, the code given on another page says B is for April, W is for 1, E is for ??? I also don't get how the last two letters can be the year. This being said my gun was made in April of 1? Can someone enlighten me on where I'm having fuzzy thinking....
     

    Daniel Martin likes this.

  2. DJ Niner

    DJ Niner Moderator

    15,236
    929
    Feb 13, 2001
    North-Central USA
    Hello Sergeantgrunt, and welcome to Glock Talk!

    The 3-letters-only barrel code on Glocks is a different stamping than the serial number (2, 3, or 4 letters plus 3 numbers), but it's occasionally confused with the serial number because most newer Glocks don't have a barrel code at all (I believe yours is one of these). Only the 3-letter barrel code can be used to de-code a production month and year using the info you've seen in the barrel code chart. On newer Glocks, the barrel code (if it has one) is usually stamped on top of the chamber, where the serial number is usually on the right-hand side of the chamber, with the matching serial number appearing on the slide and the frame dust cover. This photo shows a newer G19 with two proof marks, the barrel code AOH, and the caliber stamped on top of the chamber:

    [​IMG]

    (other photos of this pistol can also be seen in post #12 of this thread).

    On older Glocks such as the original Gen1 pistols, the barrel code will be stamped on the side of the chamber along with the serial number and proof marks. This is a photo of a Gen1 G17 showing the serial number, Eagle and Nitro proof marks, and the "CTT" barrel code on the barrel; the serial number and proof marks on the slide; and the proof marks on the frame:

    [​IMG]


    If all you want to do is find the approximate manufacture date of a Glock pistol, you can go to the Glock Serial Number Thread here at Glock Talk and look to see if there are other Glocks in the same serial number range with manufacture dates already posted:
    http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1445829

    and in your case, near the bottom of post #5, you'll see the 3-alpha/3-number late B-series serial numbers. There is a BWE-prefix pistol listed, with a (month-only) date of 1996, along with BWD and BWG series pistols (before and after your serial number) showing an 1 Apr 96 manufacture date, which indicates they were probably all in the same batch that yours was produced.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
    impetus maximus likes this.
  3. Sergeantgrunt

    Sergeantgrunt

    3
    1
    Aug 16, 2014
    Thanks for the help. My 27 has BWE124 and the Glock symbol on the right side of the barrel, and BWE124 right below that on the slide. The top says .40SW. I don't have any of these proof marks anywhere on my 27. Is this normal?
     
  4. DJ Niner

    DJ Niner Moderator

    15,236
    929
    Feb 13, 2001
    North-Central USA
    Yes, for a Glock pistol of that era that was intended to be sold in the USA, no proof marks is the normal condition. Pistols intended to be sold in Europe or certain other countries (like the Gen3 G19 in the top photo, above) will have proofs, and older Glocks that were made with the possibility of being sold in any country, also had proof marks. Most others will not.

    I will also mention that your G27 is somewhat less common in another way, in that the caliber marking you mentioned (.40SW) was only used for the first few batches of guns in that caliber. Shortly after the release of the .40 subcompacts, Glock and S&W had a bit of a falling-out, and (the story I heard was that) Glock decided they weren't going to put another company's name/initials anywhere on their pistols (especially S&W), so they changed the caliber stamping from .40SW to .40 (for folks who don't think the reason rings true, please note how Glocks in .357SIG caliber are marked). The caliber marking on the left side of your slide is probably stamped the same way. These aren't really "rare" in the sense that they would be more valuable than other similar pistols, but they are unique enough that I thought you might want to know about it. My Gen 2.5 G27 is marked the same way, and I think it's kind of cool, just because it's different than the later .40 pistols.

    I believe there are also G22 and G23 pistols that are marked in both ways, for those of you who may own older .40 caliber Glock pistols.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2014
  5. Sergeantgrunt

    Sergeantgrunt

    3
    1
    Aug 16, 2014
    Thanks a lot! That is pretty interesting about the whole S&W thing. I was considering buying a new barrel, now with this info it makes the purchase easier. Of course not for preserving value but for preserving obscure history.
     
  6. gregking

    gregking

    72
    1
    Aug 13, 2014
    I just read the whole thread. Great information here. Learned a lot. Thanks
     
  7. DJ Niner

    DJ Niner Moderator

    15,236
    929
    Feb 13, 2001
    North-Central USA
    Thank you for the kind words! Many folks have contributed to this thread, both directly and indirectly, and I thank them, as well.
     
  8. Texguy1945

    Texguy1945

    2
    0
    Sep 20, 2014
    As i stated, this is a .357...not a 9mm. And it does not have ANY of the markings or numbers on the grip.
     
  9. DJ Niner

    DJ Niner Moderator

    15,236
    929
    Feb 13, 2001
    North-Central USA
    Hello! Maybe this will be helpful.

    The shape and texture of the frame is the key to determining which Generation you have, but a few other things can be helpful, like the serial number prefix (to find out approximately when it was manufactured).

    The .357 caliber was never offered in the Gen1 Glocks, so it's not a Gen1.

    The Gen2 Glocks had no fingergrooves on the frame (like the Gen1), but had deep checkering on the front and rear surfaces of the gripping area. The Gen2 was on it's way out (being replaced by the Gen3) just as the .357 was being added to the Glock lineup, but there were a small number of Gen2 .357s made in the full-size (G31) and mid-size (G32) frames, so if your gun has a checkered front- and back-strap, with NO fingergrooves, it is a Gen2.

    If it had fingergrooves but no accessory rail on the frame dust cover under the barrel, it is a transition model known informally as a Gen2.5. The vast majority of frames with fingergrooves also had the accessory rail, and those are known as Gen3 Glocks. There is also a sub-set of the Gen3 with a sandpaper-like grip surface that extended all the way around the grip frame, replacing the checkering. These are known as Gen3 RTF2, with the "RTF" standing for Rough Textured Frame.

    All Gen4 Glocks in 9mm, .357, and .40 will have "Gen4" stamped on the slide, along with grip texture of flat-topped pyramids, at about a 12-to-an-inch frequency. Just look at the slide stamping if you think it's a Gen4.

    There are examples of all of these frame types/generation in the first post of this thread, with the exception of a Gen2.5. The Gen2.5 is fairly easy to work out when you look at that picture, though; just combine the grip portion of the frame of a Gen3, with the no-rail dust cover of a Gen2, and you've got it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2014
  10. dratarr

    dratarr

    4
    0
    Aug 15, 2014
  11. BADOS

    BADOS

    765
    38
    Oct 4, 2012
    Florida
    Great job! Thanks for your time with this project.
     
  12. MuddyPaws

    MuddyPaws Platinum Member

    Gentlemen (DJ Niner in particular):

    This thread is golden for a newb to Glocks. Awesome data set!
    Many thanks for sharing your knowledge.

    pax vobiscum
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2014
  13. DJ Niner

    DJ Niner Moderator

    15,236
    929
    Feb 13, 2001
    North-Central USA
    Thanks again for all the kind comments, and for everyone else who has contributed to this thread!
     
  14. Guys, can you help me out on the meaning of the "P" proof marks on the slide of a new Glock21 Gen4 and "MBS" proof mark on the frame on top of the trigger guard?

    Thanks ahead...
     
  15. DJ Niner

    DJ Niner Moderator

    15,236
    929
    Feb 13, 2001
    North-Central USA
    All the Gen4 Glocks should have the MBS stamp; it stands for Modular Back Strap (referring to the different sized back straps).

    Not sure on the "P" stamp; can you post a photo, or describe the location of the stamping?

    Seeing your location, I wonder if it is related to your country. Are pistol barrels controlled items there, like they are in some parts of Europe?
     
  16. Thank you for the post. I'm transitioning to a Glock and now at least have an idea what to look for. While at a gunshow I had an "expert" (not a dealer) telling me all kinds of things about Glocks. This post alone shows what an "expert" he was. Thanks again.
     
  17. Deputydave

    Deputydave Millennium Member

    1,846
    96
    Feb 20, 1999
    Florida
    DJ,

    You've got a great thread going here, well done :wavey:

    After work tonight I'm planning on purchasing a G17 RTF. This will be the first RTF Glock I've ever purchased so I'm not all that knowledgeable about them. It is advertised as a G17 RTF. It looks to have the smaller grip texture in the photo and not the larger ones in the photos you posted on page 2 or 3. So I'm assuming that it is RTF and not RTF2? It does have the gill slits (and this will be the first Glock I've owned with them).

    Curious what year(s) those were run in? I don't have the serial number yet, but IIRC there's someplace here (or somewhere) where you can run the number to see the production year.

    Advertised with the two hi-caps in excellent condition for $450. From what I've seen that is a reasonable price...I hope.

    Looking forward to getting back into another G17. The first Glock I ever purchased was a Gen 2 G17 that I became an instructor on for the agency. Was a fantastic gun and I regret ever trading it away.
     
  18. DJ Niner

    DJ Niner Moderator

    15,236
    929
    Feb 13, 2001
    North-Central USA
    Dave, I've never seen an RTF pistol or frame that wasn't an RTF2. That doesn't necessarily mean there isn't anything out there that I haven't seen, just that it would probably be less common or somewhat rare if it was anything other than an RTF2 or Gen4. If the Glock case is included, the label should say RTF2 if that's what it is; if it says anything else, it might be another RTF style, but I've never seen or heard of one.

    If you don't get a case/box to check the label, you can measure and count the dots-per-inch; RTF2 is about 20 per linear inch, and the Gen4 guns are about 12 per inch. Anything other than these, and still factory, would be somewhat rare, as far as I know. If you find something rare/different, take and send me some photos, please; strange/cool stuff does crop-up every now and then, and often when you least expect it!

    The "Glock Serial Number Research Project" thread (also in this sub-forum) is the one where you can look up the alpha-prefix of the serial number and get a good idea of the month and year the pistol was produced. If you get the case with all accessories, you can check the little brown envelope that has the two fired cases for ballistic testing; there is a test-fire date stamped on the envelope, and that is (again, usually) pretty close to the production date. Here is a link to the Glock Serial Number Research Project thread:

    http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1445829



    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2014
  19. Deputydave

    Deputydave Millennium Member

    1,846
    96
    Feb 20, 1999
    Florida
    You were correct sir. Label says RTF2 and the shell envelope has a date of March 2011.

    Unfortunately I no longer have this gun. I bought it last night at 7:30 and when I brought it home and showed my wife she claimed it as hers :supergrin:

    Actually, she's the one I bought it for. She did love it though and too be honest, although my off-duty is a G19, my favorite is still the G17. Fits my hand the best. Gentlemen stated it had maybe 300 rounds down the tube and it looked pristine. I figure the $450 was a fair price.

    Appreciate the help and again, this is a great thread with a wealth of information!
    :wavey: