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Glock 29 kaboom

Discussion in 'The 10 Ring' started by deadandgone, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. _The_Shadow

    _The_Shadow Ret. Fireman

    4,522
    22
    Jul 23, 2007
    Southeast, LoUiSiAna
    Hodgdon's site list for the 40S&W 165 grain JHP as a max load of 7.8 grains of LongShot powder yielding 1185 fps with a pressure of 33,400 PSI
     
  2. That is a big difference from 10 grains of Longshot.

    Thanks for the pull down, Shadow.
     

  3. blastfact

    blastfact

    1,702
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    Aug 15, 2011
    Oklahoma
    That was some hot .40.
     
  4. pistolpete10mm

    pistolpete10mm

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    Feb 28, 2011
    Belgium
    Good to hear nobody got seriously hurt, but +640 ft lbs from a .40 S&W is just crazy. With all due respect to Mike, but selling this kind of ammo is insane, what was he thinking? He made a hot 10mm out of a .40. Knowing that the Glock has had the most kabooms in .40 this was just a recipe for disaster. I'm surprised this hasn't happened more often. Anther lesson learned I guess, but this could have been avoided if Mike didn't went overboard with his ++++++P loads. You don't talk bad about people who are no longer among us, but the fact is that he endangered peoples lives with his dangerously loaded ammo.
     
  5. SDGlock23

    SDGlock23 Glockoholic

    Yikes!

    I never even knew they offered such a load. I've worked with Longshot quite a bit in the .40 but 10.0gr for a 165gr is a bit warm obviously.

    I have issue with the 7.8gr load listed by Hodgdon, but the 165gr Sierra JHP is a somewhat long JHP compared to the shorter 165gr Gold Dot. The main reason this data from Hodgdon is suspect is that the 180gr has a higher max charge (8.0gr) than does the 165gr...which is whack. But that Sierra JHP is almost as long as some 180gr JHPs. Looking at other loads, with a 165 Gold Dot somewhere around 9.0gr should be fairly close to what should be listed.

    Due to the shorter OAL of the 165gr Gold Dot, I've worked up to 9.5gr in the .40, which out of the 6" G24 length KKM barrel averaged 1,485 fps/ 800+ ft-lbs. I stopped there since almost 1500 fps with a 165gr Gold Dot out of a .40 is plenty for me. However, would I want to shoot that from a stock barrel? I wouldn't without working it up in a stock barrel, but I prefer the better support of the KKM.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  6. Any Cal.

    Any Cal.

    442
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    Oct 27, 2008
    For an idea of what can be acheived safely I look at Buffalo Bore's #s, as they seem to load as hot as possible safely. Their .40 +P load is 155 @ 1300 out of a 5" barrel. Anybody claiming or getting 100fps more is doing something VERY wrong, and risking other people's health in the process.

    Thanks for the pulldown Shadow. Did you pull several to check consistency?
     
  7. 475-480

    475-480

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    Apr 2, 2012
    Houston,Tx
    FWIW ,
    When I run the numbers in my Quickload program for the 40 SW-165gr GD and Longshot powder at 10.0gr at 1325 fps = 49,700 PSI. No wonder something blew up.:faint:
    I think we might need to pay more attention to what we are shooting. A 165gr JHP in the 10MM at 1325 is medium high pressure how much more in the 40 SW.
    Lets be safe out there men.


    Sean
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  8. _The_Shadow

    _The_Shadow Ret. Fireman

    4,522
    22
    Jul 23, 2007
    Southeast, LoUiSiAna
    Here is the run down of all 35 SwampFox Ammo 40S&W cartridges loaded with Hodgdon's LongShot powder, as pulled-down from Deadandgone box. Once again we wish to thank him for sharing so we can learn for this incident!

    13 cartridges @ 09.6 gr / 11 cartridges @ 09.4 gr / 4 cartridges @ 09.8 gr / 4 cartridges @ 09.9 gr and 2 cartridges @ 10.0 gr

    10.0 gr
    09.9 gr
    09.6 gr
    09.4 gr
    09.6 gr
    09.6 gr
    10.0 gr
    09.6 gr
    09.4 gr
    09.9 gr
    09.8 gr
    09.8 gr
    09.6 gr
    09.8 gr
    09.6 gr
    09.8 gr
    09.6 gr
    09.6 gr
    09.4 gr
    09.6 gr
    09.4 gr
    09.4 gr
    09.4 gr
    09.6 gr
    09.4 gr
    09.4 gr
    09.9 gr
    09.8 gr
    09.9 gr
    09.4 gr
    09.6 gr
    09.6 gr
    09.4 gr
    09.6 gr

    All loads were checked on two scales, the loads at 09.9 grains were for my balance beam RCBS 5-10 Scale these would have shown 09.8 on the digital because it only shows even numbers in the tenths column...

    UPDATED the previous post with this data as well...
     
  9. 475-480

    475-480

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    Apr 2, 2012
    Houston,Tx
    The 9.4gr loads are BORDERLINE OK ,still over pressure but workable in a fully supported barrel.
    His QC on powder measurements is sorely lacking. Kinda makes me wonder what brand powder measure he used.

    Sean
     
  10. _The_Shadow

    _The_Shadow Ret. Fireman

    4,522
    22
    Jul 23, 2007
    Southeast, LoUiSiAna
    It might be, but I don't wish to work to those levels in the 40S&W cartridges...

    Did the Quickload program ever get data for the IMR800X powder? ??? LongShot is very simular by weight as 800X.:dunno:
     
  11. 475-480

    475-480

    35
    0
    Apr 2, 2012
    Houston,Tx
    * I agree to hot .
    * No the QL program does not have IMR 800 X in it yet.

    Sean
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  12. broncobuddha1

    broncobuddha1

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    Jul 22, 2011
    Knoxville, TN
    OP....very glad you are OK. Scary I'm sure.

    I honestly don't get loading hot 40. Wasn't the 40 originally developed because..... well because it isn't 10mm?:whistling:
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  13. deadandgone

    deadandgone

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    Jul 27, 2010
    First, thanks to Shadow for pulling all those rounds. I could not believe my ears when he called me and told me that he found 10 grains of longshot in a round. I am not a reloader, but even I know that was just crazy.

    Hindsight is 20/20, and I'm just glad I got all my eyes and fingers to consider it. Looking back, I trusted Mike to load a safe but hot round for my xdm. I now believe that trust was wrongfully placed. I looked at the kaboom stories from a couple of years ago....very similar to what happened to me. Shortly after Mike made my ammo, he decided to "back off" a little and began to reduce some of his loads. Surely he had to know he was doing some crazy, dangerous stuff. Me, I was naive, and wanted to believe that I could shoot this jacked up stuff without fear.

    We learn, and we move on, hopefully sharing what we've learned along the way. It cannot be overstated, Swamp Fox ammo is dangerous. We have no way of knowing his quality control on any given batch, or what he was thinking on any given day. I think it has been stated somewhere in this thread that Mike tended to vacillate with his thinking and his actions. A dangerous way to make ammo.
     
  14. ModGlock17

    ModGlock17

    4,909
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    Dec 18, 2010
    DisneyWorld
    It seems making your own ammo is the way to go. As long as you don't get distracted while reloading or ingest something sinful before hand, you would (or should) know what you get.
     
  15. Any Cal.

    Any Cal.

    442
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    Oct 27, 2008
    So it looks like he was shooting for 9.6g, and everything else was just the deviations due to extremely poor process control. Not a matter of +/- .2g, which would have been poor anyway, but -.2/+.4, which is garbage. So much for "true 10mm ballistics".
     
  16. oldman11

    oldman11

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    Mar 1, 2012
    Texas
    You're correct, that was why the 40S&W came into being. Which makes me wonder why some people buy the 40 and then extra hot loads so it'll be closer the 10 instead of just buying the 10 to start with.
     
  17. TDC20

    TDC20

    1,013
    286
    Apr 11, 2011
    Because the 10 has vicious recoil. Haven't you heard? :rofl:
     
  18. _The_Shadow

    _The_Shadow Ret. Fireman

    4,522
    22
    Jul 23, 2007
    Southeast, LoUiSiAna
    My purpose for the 40S&W is for building proficiency and maintaining trigger time mostly with cast bullets. Using the conversion barrels yields the same sight picture and trigger/grip feel.:cool:

    The conversion barrels allow me to also used other cartridges...Handloaders are just like that, if the find brass they want to loaded it up and shoot it!:supergrin:
     
  19. SDGlock23

    SDGlock23 Glockoholic

    I can't speak for everyone, but I loaded for the 10mm for years. I guess the very same could be said for 10mm guys who load the 10mm trying make it a .41 Magnum. Why not buy a .41 Mag to start with? Someone can't load for the .40 to get the most out of it, but can load the 10mm well beyond book and that's okay?

    All I'm saying is, you can load the 10mm warm and you can load the .40 warm. Same precautions apply to both, there is not an extra margin of safety because it's a 10mm instead of a .40 because the 10mm case isn't any stronger than the .40 case, if anything the opposite is true. Loading warm/hot for the 10mm is common, why would it be any different for the .40?
     
  20. _The_Shadow

    _The_Shadow Ret. Fireman

    4,522
    22
    Jul 23, 2007
    Southeast, LoUiSiAna
    SDGlock23, As is with every cartridge ever developed, there are those that will push till something gives! How much is too much?...OUCH! They are looking for maximum performace throwing caution to the wind.

    One thing that comes to mind in the Op's situation, pressure testing if it is done is done so in a fixed barrel fixture. While things may have been within certain limits during that testing, the dymaics of the semiauto pistols can change the way things happen thru out the pressure and ejection phases. Think of bolt action rifle vs. blowback semiautos...

    Early unlocking of the barrel and slide, can actually be a cause of case failures, as the early ejection cycle is dragging the cartridge out of the chamber under pressure, increasing unsupported areas. The case expansion could actually work to further increase unsupported conditions pushing itself out of the chamber.

    Primers being popped out, can move the slide back from the locked possition, the case maybe forced off the extractor hook, to be left in the chamber.

    The question of the aftermarket barrel itself raises some concerns, the angles of the locking lug on the barrel in relation to the angles of the locking block in the frame, could have been different form that of stock arrangements. There is some data to support this on the various Glock gun sales sites, suggesting poor fitting and lock-up situations.

    These are a few things that come to mind with the dynamics involved for the Glock and other guns.

    The reason I took on this Pull-Down process, was two fold for me, I like to study what lead up to the situation and also to provide better insite, so everyone could learn something from Deadandgone's mishap with his Glock 29. After all it was his intent to post his information for these reasons of having others learn something as well.