Glock 23 Gen 4 Accidental Discharge??!!

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by 00Glazz, Dec 3, 2012.

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  1. Ok Im thinking ahead a little.
    1. Glock identifies that the gun left the factory in that condition, what will they do?
    2. Glock identifies that the gun was modified somehow after it left the factory, will the gun shop take responsibility for this?
    3. Glock finds that the gun is good to go and sends it back, what will the OP do and will the focus be put back on the Serpa?
    Just some things to ponder until we get feedback from OP in reference to what Glock finds!

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  2. Those are both very nice pistols. :cool: Maybe a Christmas present for yourself.

  3. I don't know where you shop. Every LGS I know verifies the serial on the gun to the serial on the box to the serial on the paperwork as soon as they get them. Opening a pistol box several weeks after you received it to only find out the serial # is not one that you have in inventory would get you a visit from the BATFE. Also when the BATFE shows up for an inspection they compare the numbers in your log to the numbers on the firearm. They don't look at the numbers on the box.
    #243 NCHeel, Dec 5, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  4. FYI, Couple of months ago someone on S&W forums thought they may have been sold used 686 'as new' from same sore (Cleveland Location).

    That said, I buy all my reloading supplies there… and several revolver/pistol purchases (both Cleveland/Ashland). Bought a used .500 from them…

    I think you'll agree they're top notch. I agree w/ Finestkind, I'd take it back in there and see what they have to say, or will do.

    As busy as they are I'd have a hard time believing they would have the time to clean, let alone alter inventory.

    Always see like new Glocks in used case and they seem to be getting top dollar for them. Just don't see them doing this…

    Good luck.
  5. I'd bet a few dollars it was the holster that caused it, there is no possible way the gun could shoot itself. I trust my life with a loaded gen 3 23 with 3.5 pound trigger everyday.

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  6. .38 super

    .38 super Observer

    Thanks. So I will assume again that you did not put any lubricant in both firing pin's and safety pin's channels. I will assume also, that you did not fully disassemble the gun to make sure two channels are dry. Again - I'm not saying it like you did something wrong, I would do it with new gun, especially if someone else cleaned it already, but there is nothing wrong I think to trust your LGS, I'm just trying to get to what we positively know and what we don't...
    I will also assume that we don't know how the shop cleaned the gun and if you didn't check the two channels, it could be some unknown at this moment lubricant there.
    Do you remember how the channel looked like when you and the second gunsmith found out about the bent spring ? Was it dry, was it dirty, any recollections ?

    There are several ways we can go from here - fouling in the safety pin's channel ( I find this highly unusual from the reported rounds fired, but...) or a very common mistake - when whoever put the gun back, probably didn't place the spring in the pin's opening and did bend it when forced the slide, I've done it for myself few times...

    Bent safety pin's spring will cause the pin to malfunction, they are several consequences from there, I don't want to speculate, in my experience, the pin did stuck up, I found about it when I cleaned the gun after the shooting...

    Pin stuck in top position will allow the firing pin to ignite the primer, how will it cock all the way back and how it will be released, especially when the gun is in the holster - I don't think I know, but bent safety pin's spring is already one contributing factor for the discharge.
  7. .38 super

    .38 super Observer

    You are both - right and not. You're right, because in your work you use this on threads. It does work like lubricant and also prevents seizures. I had a body shop in Europe and went trough bunch of the same product - this is a great company...

    In guns however, such "lubricant" is used primarily when they are stored for unknown period of time.
    It is heavier and harder "lubricant" for gun use, there is nothing wrong to stay in your Glock but most people will simply go with the general rule to disassemble their new gun, to clean and inspect it and to lube it with lubricant of choice.
    With or without it, gun with hard treatment as Tenifer or melonite will operate most likely without any lubricant or with whatever they decide to put in it, I've seen Glock lubed with heavy silicon based Astroglide... It feel just as you lubed it with Enos's red grease, only after shooting is terribly dirty...
  8. I had three close friends riding in a humvee in Afghanistan, 10deg out. The gunner had a M249 mounted in the turret but he is sitting in the truck it's so cold. The truck hits a series of bumps and the gun fires 3 rounds without anyone near it. The bolt was back and it was off safe. They were always known to be safe and honest as well as they had no reson to lie about it because the ammo wouldn't have been missed and the squad leader was in the truck. The gun was sent to the shop and the only answer they could get was the gun did have an out of spec part but they couldn't make the gun do it again. It got destroyed just in case.
  9. PEC-Memphis

    PEC-Memphis Scottish Member

    I suppose there isn't a feed ramp or stripper rail/bar in a glock either - after all they are not mentioned in the armorer's manual or parts list.
  10. If the gun was sold as new bit was used and a previous owner did a bad trigger job polishing the FP lug and cruciform and also the FP safety block, then assemble it with a bent FP safety block spring so it is depressed all the time then yes, it could fire when dropped.
  11. We're on the same page, I don't use it as a lube.

    I was just correcting "LampShadeActual" saying it was NOT a lube.
    I, like Glock would only use it for long term storage
    which will not happen on my 23 because it's my EDC/CCW
    #251 clarkz71, Dec 6, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  12. I do not see how it can be the holster. There is nothing inside a Serpa that could depress the trigger. The locking mechanism is well forward of the trigger and only makes contact with the front of the trigger guard.

    It has to be the defects found by the armorer.
    #252 ray9898, Dec 6, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  13. A Glock armorer found defective parts in the gun.

    We're past the holster theory.
  14. JAS104

    JAS104 NRA Life Member

    I did the same thing. Handled 19, then the Blackhawk Serpa, then them both together, and couldnt figure it out. I see that the retention mechanism basically "grabs hold" of the trigger guard to keep the weapon in place, but I cant for the life of me figure out how it would've caused an AD/ND unless you draw the weapon and your finger slipped inside the trigger guard, OR there was something lodged in there. But, like you, I'm going to keep the serpa in the drawer until further review. Back to my ol faithful leather belt or Kingtuk IWB.
  15. All of the serpa issues I have seen were a user issue and not the holster. The part that engages the retention is below (well below) the trigger guard and only catches the front of the trigger guard not anywhere near the trigger.

    I am not sure what caused this even through I would agree to look at everything but both items have fail safes to prevent this from happening. Unload the weapon and do everything you can holstering/unholstering to get a dry fire. You might also put it in the holster and slam it on the table a few times and check to see if the hammer drops.
    #255 spcwes, Dec 6, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  16. Fear Night

    Fear Night NRA Life Member

    I'm interested to hear what Glock says.

    The whole copper lube being taken off at the gun store just sounds weird to me. A gun store employee should have no reason to clean a factory NIB gun. Like others have mentioned, I'd guess the gun was "like new" on a trade, and the gun store took it apart to clean it.

    Did the employee at the gun store bend the parts putting the gun back together? Did the original owner bend the parts or modify the trigger? Who knows. The fact that you say the trigger feels light, especially on a supposed brand new gun that isn't even supposed to be broken in yet, raises a huge alarm in my head. I would be shocked if it left the Glock factory in this condition.
    #256 Fear Night, Dec 6, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  17. .38 super

    .38 super Observer

    In some terms "lampShadeActual" is right... I cannot speak for anybody, but in gun terms, it is not a lubricant even it has some lubricating properties... See, when we use it in threads, the movement of the parts is slow and under significant pressure, with extremely tight tolerances. The coper itself works as a lubricant, the actual lubricant in this stuff plays only a role of medium for the coper content, if I can express it that way... In guns we have impact like movements, fairly lose tolerances and the coper content basically does not lubricate anything, because there is no tight enough surfaces that will squish it and take advantage of it's lubricating properties... I don't want to go there, but for lubrication it will work better if you "lube" your bore with it and than shoot some rounds, the coper will cover the bore the same way some dry lube will do it... Can you use it for this purpose ? Yes. Should you? No, there are much better products if you are looking for covering your bore with something that will decrease friction... It was just an example, where the anti-seize compound will probably be used... :supergrin:
    I'm sure LampShadeActual meant "for use in guns" when he said " it's not a lubricant "... :wavey:
  18. Page 37 of you Glock manual under "Cleaning and Field stripping the pistol"

    #258 tonyparson, Dec 6, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  19. I recently purchased a Gen4 G26 and I'm measuring its trigger pull at 4.5lbs. I thought that was odd, as I've seen people say the Gen4 trigger was heavier than Gen3s. I've watched videos of Gen3s measured between 5.5 and 6.5. And, Glock's current spec is 5.5lbs. I thought maybe I just got lucky with mine.
  20. ...dont carry with one in the pipe ...too dangerous!

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