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GF in trouble for carrying

Discussion in 'Indiana Glockers' started by Skpotamus, Apr 3, 2007.

  1. Skpotamus


    Oct 14, 2003
    Terre Haute, IN
    Ugh, I'm kinda pissed right now. My gf (fiancee really), just got done telling me her story from work.

    She's finishing up school and working at JC Penny's. She normally carries her Kahr PM9 to work, stores it in a secured locker, then carries it after work.

    She used to keep it concealed on her person during her shifts, but another employee sat on her in the break room and discovered the firearm, complained and the manager asked her to keep it locked up during her shifts.

    A few weeks ago, they had a guy hovering around the exit doors after close when employees were starting to leave. Apparantly a pretty shady looking character. The Loss Prevention at Penny's isn't armed. They knew from talking to my GF that she's a MA instructor and carries a firearm sometimes. They asked her to walk with them to escort employees out to their vehicles while this guy was outside to ensure the female LP's (all of them are female btw) and the other employees weren't attacked, at least until the local PD showed up.

    The other night, during the LP's check of employee purses, bags etc, the LP pulled my gf's gun out of her purse, and freaked out another employee, who complained about it.

    Today, the store manager called her into his office and told her she was no longer allowed to carry her firearm to work (even keeping it in her locker during her shift, or in her vehicle), according to the NEW company policy. He told her she needed to sign a form stating that she agreed to not carry at work or she would be fired, if she didn't sign the form, she wouldn't be allowed to return to work until she did so. To her knowledge, noone else was forced to sign this form.

    I don't know if there's anything that can be done about it. She doesn't want to stop carrying, especially since a number of female employees have been attacked while leaving the mall after close. Is there any course of action she can take other than looking for another job? (Which she has already started btw). I remember something about a Taco Bell being sued because they didn't allow customers and employees to carry, but I can't remember enough specifics.
  2. Warp


    Jul 31, 2005
    Does LP routinely go through employees personal belongings?

    If my fiance had a gun in her purse that purse it would not be in the possession of anybody else...with the possible exception of an on duty, sworn law enforcement officer.

  3. R. Emmelman

    R. Emmelman Tired Member

    The thing here is Indiana is an employer at will state. The short of it is an employer can terminate employment for any legal reason. If the employer does not want an employee to carry they have the right to say no. I would however ask to see the corporate policy prohibiting carrying of weapons and also find out if general managers have the authority to make such local policies.
  4. Perhaps the weapon needed to be in a Smartcarry holster all day. LP searching? Check the local ordinances too.

    The manager is a Richard Cranium but corporate will usually back the jerks anyway.
  5. If she wants to keep carrying, then I would do some sort of seriously deep concealed carry. Something like Blitzer mentioned, belly band, etc.

    She can't be locked up for violating a company policy, but they can easily can her for it.

    As far as LP searching employee bags, again, they can do that, as a condition of employment, all day long.

    Seems a bit ironic that they ask her to escort but then deny her the right to self-defense. She may want to remind them of that.
  6. RF7126


    Sep 19, 2003
    Western Florida
    My fiancee used to work at Elder Beerman there, and I was always worried about her leaving work. She also carried a 19 in her purse for a while, but became concerned that someone would find it like in your situation and quit doing it. I wish I knew how to help, that's a crappy situation.

    However, I'd be shocked if there wasn't a "no firearms" section in the employee rules. I know every single company I've worked for has had that rule.
  7. minuteman32

    minuteman32 NRA & GOA Life

    Aug 20, 2004
    Central IN.
    I have been "forced" to sign stuff @ work, too. I usually write out something like, "Donnot Agree" or something similar. They are usually not paying close enough attn. to tell it's not my name, &, since I didn't actually sign whatever form, I can still do "as I please" (on that particular issue, @ least).:supergrin: :thumbsup:
  8. minuteman32

    minuteman32 NRA & GOA Life

    Aug 20, 2004
    Central IN.
    Oh, also, you might want to let the store manager & LP, that since they are taking responsability for everyones safety, you WILL hold them responsable if something happens to them going to, from or @ work!

    As far as carrying off body, well ..... that's just stupid! Sorry, I usually try to sugar coat it, but you are reaping the fruit of "off body carry". I realize she was "found out" carrying on her person, but unless she is Santa Clause, no one should've been sitting on her, to begin w/!

    Perhaps a sharpened entrenching tool would work, or a hatchet, something they sell in their tool department. I'm sure she could carry that!
  9. rhino465


    Sep 24, 2003
    Indiana, USA
    If I were advising her, I would keep in mind that she's going to get fired if she doesn't sign, but also if she gets "caught" again.

    So . . . I would recommend something like what minuteman32 does. Do the "non-agreeing agreement" and sign a name like Daffy Duck.

    Then, as IPDBrad mentioned, find a better way to carry on her person that is less likely to be noticed, but still accessible quickly. Along with that, DON'T LET OTHER PEOPLE YOU DON'T TRUST ABSOLUTELY with you "secret" TOUCH YOU IN ANY WAY, INCLUDING SITTING ON YOUR LAP. She has a good reason to be standoffish now, anyway.

    Then, continue to do what it takes to secure her personal safety until she finds a new and probably better job. At that new job, do not broach the issue of carrying weapons (Don't Ask; Don't tell). The difference is, she is always going to be under suspicion at her current place of employment, but will be just another new employee at the new job.

    Maybe you can get her a job at Gander Mountain!

    Good luck!
  10. Warp


    Jul 31, 2005
    Can she go back to on body carry as she did before and simply not allow anybody to sit on her lap...?
  11. biggl35

    biggl35 NFA user

    Jul 3, 2005
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Deep concealment is your friend, she needs to find a way to keep her weapon on HER person.

    A Daffy Duck signature is in order here, that is what I recommend.

    No job is worth having, if your right to defend yourself is expressly forbidden.

    If your GF decides to keep this job and agrees to signoff on the company's no-carry form. I would suggest that she compose a similar form that the company rep must sign, stating that they are now responsible for her personal safety during her work shifts and upon entering and leaving the company property. This letter of "Gauranteed Personal Safety", should also include the possible ramifications that the employer could possibly find themselves under if something were to happen to her.

    Good luck.
  12. kevin101


    Jan 23, 2006
    Upstate NY

    Good idea, maybe there should be a generic form created here on GT that any of us could print out and fill in the blank as far as company name and address goes.
  13. pixel218


    Feb 14, 2005
    I am RF7126's fiance. I have worked at Elder-Beerman, J C Penny, and L S Ayres (now Macys). Each time I was told by the managers that each store, as well as the Honey Creek Mall itself, has a no firearms policy. I was also told that even leaving it locked in my car was grounds for termination (although how they would know, I don't know).
  14. Skpotamus


    Oct 14, 2003
    Terre Haute, IN
    Part of the new corporate policy is that LP searches bags at the close of work everyday.

    The real pisser is, she was originally carrying in an ankle holster. She was sitting in the break room, had her feet up on a chair when another employee sat on her foot and freaked out. There were plenty of other chairs open, the other employee was simply being a b***h.

    I mentioned the "I refuse to follow this policy" signature, but it was after the fact.

    I told her to remind the manager that LP had asked her to help escort employees out.

    Anyways, she's looking for a new job. Has been for a while. She doesn't like letting people know she carries, and doesn't like off body carry, but didn't have a choice. Similar to Gander's policy of no guns in the store, the employees that carry have to leave them in their vehicles.

    Rhino, I thought about that.... but would you want to work with your wife all day? :sad:

    How's the shooting going at Riley? I'm still meaning to go, but it seems like everyone and everything conspires to keep me away.
  15. mpholic


    Nov 1, 2004
    Excuse me for pointing out the obvious but NO amount of Daffy Duck signatures and counter forms holding the employer responsible for your security is going to do ANY good.

    Regardless of whether she legally signs the form or not they don't need it to fire her. They can fire her for ANY legal reason. They don't even need to mention the gun situation (even though it's the real reason).

    No company or company officer will sign a document guaranteeing your safety. They don't have to. They'll just tell you to take a walk and pull the next application out of the drawer.

    This is a lose/lose situation. The employee has no recourse. The only valid advice is to carry on person, carry deeply concealed, NEVER mention it to ANY one you work with, NEVER let ANY one you work with touch you. Once your employer finds out you better start looking for something else.
  16. epsylum

    epsylum Boolit Hoze

    Sep 4, 2004
    Racing Capital, USA

    and what I have been doing for the past year and a half. The only person that knows also carries to work so ratting me out will only get him fired as well.
  17. singlestacksig


    May 13, 2006
    you would have to do some digging at the library.. but in the late 70's early 80's a woman leaving work at the J.C. Penny's in Glendale mall was grabbed, raped & killed.. it made headlines for a few weeks..
    My Mother was working there at the time..

    Maybe you should find copies of that news story and give one to your boss and ask how much they want to be resposible for..
  18. Patrick Graham

    Patrick Graham Footlong Jr.

    Sep 7, 2001
    Kokomo Indiana
    My 2 cents..

    She should get another job..

    And on her way out she should let it be known that she will be posting on the internet that JC penny is anti-gun and that JC Penny should be avoided by people who protect themselves and their families..

    Then we could do a little blurb in GT GD and arfcom GD about JC Penny's personal protection policies.. and do a mass mail in..

    It could get Zumbo sized..
  19. rhino465


    Sep 24, 2003
    Indiana, USA
    You completely misunderstand the purpose of Daffy Duck signatures and non-agreement, at least from my perspective. It had nothing to do with trying to preserve your employment status. It's about not lying by signing an agreement you don't intend to keep. It's about personal honor, not preventing your boss from firing you.

    Bringing a counter form is about making a statement, not about being able to actually hold an employer liable. Some want to make that statement and I applaud them for it.
  20. sdsnet

    sdsnet NRA Member CLM

    Feb 8, 2007
    The employees that complained are idiots considering the people that have been attacked etc. I wouldn't work for anyone that treated me like that. Time for a new job, that one is no longer safe.